Chaos3 wrote:Thank you for explaining in detail why you don't have time to play games. (but you have time to argue on the internet) I'm sorry your life is stressful, but would you entertain the notion that the fact your current endeavors have you stressed and your time so limited that your current set up would not allow you to enjoy this game as it was originally intended.
Every piece of media is some type of art form that the creator chose an avenue of expression that would best to deliver the experience. Some are better as a picture to admire, a sound to be heard, a novel to be read, a movie to watch, a game to play.
Now lets focus on the game aspect. How much value do you get out of finding a YouTube video with the ending of the game and judging it off that vs making it there yourself. Lets say you watched a full playthrough, yes you get a small window of what the experience would be like, but the experience itself is forever lost to you. You don't get any of the surprises, any of the rewards, pain, love, or sorrow that comes from actually doing it. So much of why a "game" was chosen as the medium will be lost to you because you don't give it the proper time to evaluate the art.
Diablo, Dark Souls, Doom Eternal, heck since you brought up Nintendo, Zelda Breath of the Wild are monumental games that, with the proper appreciation, are life changing experiences and deserve so much more that casual watch on a lets play YouTube video. The struggle itself is meant to add the art itself so you can see the full picture.
I could describe in great detail what intercourse is like, show you diagrams and videos, but until you actually experience it for yourself you have no idea what it is like. That's what your missing out on by dismissing the difficulty of figuring it out for yourself.
As for the poll, being in the majority doesn't make it right. More people eat McDonalds Hamburgers that any other but that doesn't make it the best. Too many people want instant gratification and don't want invest any effort to get a reward. To them I say, Why are you expressing your opinion in the "Game" section. The picture and video section is right over there.
As for the ego thing you're missing the point. There is no leader board here. No vs. mode. other than by sharing save files or screen shots there is no way to prove your progress. I play games like this because they are enjoyable. While they are not the all consuming driving force of my life I understand the value many of them have. I have a family, job, soon another degree to earn so I have to be choosy and what hobbies I can invest my time in. If you don't enjoy games that require a time investment why are you playing games that do. There is Minecraft creative mode and Animal Crossing right over there. If you like, I can link you to a web page that says "you win, Congratulations!" The idea that all rewards should be accessible to everyone cheapens the rewards meaning. Same with art.
Take my advice. I have several games on my shelf and on my pc that I don't have the time to appreciate due to the time investment it would take to experience them. How about you put this one on the shelf for when your life quiets down. Give it the proper play through. And then ill be all ears to your critique.
I must admit, the reason I'm continuing to devote time to this discussion is that I rather enjoy the civil discourse, especially since this is a topic I see pop up frequently and I like to say my piece. And the reason I so frequently refer back to the poll is because I don't think you fully appreciate that you are more skilled than most at this game. You talk as if anyone can complete the game with time and effort, when that is simply not true. This has been known for decades and is the reason why so many games have different difficulties for different players. Halo for example, a critically acclaimed game series has difficulty settings from the very easy to the ludicrously hard because the developers know not everyone is capable of defeating the game at the maximum difficulty, some people will never be that good.
And I respect your stance that the challenge is the core of all games that separates them from other media forms, but I beg to disagree with that premise. I believe that interactivity is what separates games from every other artistic medium. There are plenty of films that are hard to watch due to poor pacing and clumsy acting, but in none of those films do you have the opportunity to influence the outcome. There are books with such bad prose and grammar that they are nearly incomprehensible, and reading them is truly challenging, but at no point can you ever rewrite the book you are reading. Games stand out by the opportunity to interact and choose what you do. And on the subject of making the rewards accessible cheapening the art, the point of art is to convey a message, to portray an emotion, to emit a feeling. If you aren't conveying your message then you have failed as an artist. The greatest film-makers are the ones that can use every aspect of their medium to tell a compelling story to their audience, not to confuse them. You want art that doesn't give its rewards easily? Buy a Jackson Pollock painting, I assure you no one will know what the hell it's trying to convey.
Perhaps my favourite game of all time is undertale, it isn't the most difficult game, in fact it's rather easy. It provides very little challenge, save for the genocide route, you don't need to work especially hard to get through it, by your own metric it is instant gratification as the story is laid bare much of the time. In fact by your own testament the fact that nearly anyone can play this game to completion without much difficulty should
cheapen the art, yet it is possibly the most impactful game I've ever played, and has once again received critical acclaim for that. What makes that game so powerful isn't difficulty, it's story, it immerses you in the story through your participation in a way no film or book ever could. The reason I refer back to nintendo games is that they were very simple games, you have a challenge, you beat the challenge. Modern games are stories in themselves, they are experiences beyond the gameplay. To say all a story centric game like this has to offer is a challenge is an insult to the time that went into writing the characters or drawing the art.
Admittedly I'm very biased in my views of what's important in a game, but I believe everyone can appreciate something for different aspects of it. There's a story in this game, and I want to experience it in an interactive way that I can't get from a book or movie. Will making me work for it cause me to appreciate it more? I highly doubt it, in my experience if I have to work hard for something I focus so much on "winning" that I no longer appreciate the experience, I get so caught up in the destination I miss the journey. So my point is that just because someone else enjoys a game a different way than you, why is that any less valid? Why should someone be denied the story because they can't beat the bosses? Why should a skilled player be allowed to advance through the battles just to skip all the dialogue? Why would making a lower difficulty option for weaker players diminish the story?
Give 4 different people a car, the first is young and appreciates the thrill of the speed, the second is older and appreciates the comfort of the ride, the third is adventurous and appreciates the freedom to travel it gives him, the fourth has a family and appreciates how much easier it is to take the kids to school and pick up groceries. Which is the most valid reason for appreciating the car? Should the family man be denied the car because he doesn't enjoy the speed? Should the adventurous driver be denied the car because he doesn't have children to take to school?
I enjoy this a lot.