Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye candy.

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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby AlluringPredation » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:07 pm

There's a clear difference between dressing provocatively in a public setting where manners should be observed no matter how you exhibit your stuff, than strutting around naked with ass in the air in a place known for orgies and being surprised when a someone doesn't want you for your personality. Yeah, I know this is an arguable point, which is why you singled it out, disregarding my point of lack of expression for the character's individuality beyond a really cool but barebones settings.

The main thing I should really express is I find the character of OP's ideas personally interesting, honestly looking I'm hungry to learn more. I'm sure there's a lot more to this character than meets the eye, and likely a huge amount of depth, especially considering the word usage in the brief profile. But as is I'd only have the barest idea on how to make this player happy, what they would expect out of me, what character of mine would best suit a play with them, and how I can work them together cohesively on my side. As such I'd personally be afraid to approach them for lack of understanding.

So if I can't figure out this stuff, how can I expect anyone with difficulty communicating to be able to discern?
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby four_fleets » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:26 pm

AlluringPredation wrote:There's a clear difference between dressing provocatively in a public setting where manners should be observed no matter how you exhibit your stuff, than strutting around naked with ass in the air in a place known for orgies and being surprised when a someone doesn't want you for your personality. Yeah, I know this is an arguable point, which is why you singled it out, disregarding my point of lack of expression for the character's individuality beyond a really cool but barebones settings.

The main thing I should really express is I find the character of OP's ideas personally interesting, honestly looking I'm hungry to learn more. I'm sure there's a lot more to this character than meets the eye, and likely a huge amount of depth, especially considering the word usage in the brief profile. But as is I'd only have the barest idea on how to make this player happy, what they would expect out of me, what character of mine would best suit a play with them, and how I can work them together cohesively on my side. As such I'd personally be afraid to approach them for lack of understanding.

So if I can't figure out this stuff, how can I expect anyone with difficulty communicating to be able to discern?



The fun thing about all of this was that I was halted midway through writing in the preferences, then got the messages. At that point I lost all mood in filling in the preferential inclinations, at 4 AM.

That, and you'd be surprised how hard it is to find a decent furry image on e621 that -isn't- sexualized, though you raise an interesting point I'll attempt to fix.
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby tastyWeasel » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:41 pm

AlluringPredation wrote:There's a clear difference between dressing provocatively in a public setting where manners should be observed no matter how you exhibit your stuff, than strutting around naked with ass in the air in a place known for orgies and being surprised when a someone doesn't want you for your personality.

I definitely RP for the interaction and experience rather than the character development, but I at least make sure I find a character that I would think be interested in mine by seeing if their main kinks match mine. That's why I've been moving to F-list. The detailed search function is a god send; you can search for specific kinks (and how much they prefer them on a scale of Favorite,yes,maybe and no), genders, orientations, species, whether they prefer furries or humans, dom or sub, their posting length... the amount of search options is mind boggling, and makes it really easy to find a character that has compatible interests with yours.

AlluringPredation wrote:
The main thing I should really express is I find the character of OP's ideas personally interesting, honestly looking I'm hungry to learn more. I'm sure there's a lot more to this character than meets the eye, and likely a huge amount of depth, especially considering the word usage in the brief profile. But as is I'd only have the barest idea on how to make this player happy, what they would expect out of me, what character of mine would best suit a play with them, and how I can work them together cohesively on my side. As such I'd personally be afraid to approach them for lack of understanding.

That is why I tend to avoid small/incomplete looking profiles. To both prevent said misunderstanding issues, and coming across such profiles often does not leave a good impression of authors writing capability on me.
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby Doku » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:55 pm

AlluringPredation wrote:There's a clear difference between dressing provocatively in a public setting where manners should be observed no matter how you exhibit your stuff, than strutting around naked with ass in the air in a place known for orgies and being surprised when a someone doesn't want you for your personality.


No. There isn't. Proper etiquette always applies, even in the champagne room. The fact that I have to explain this is not a good thing, Predation. I should *never* have to explain this, to anyone.

To your point about there not being enough to go off of, I did not consider it to be a point to be worth discussing. You seem to find something of interest in her profile. I, myself, am not interested in Four Fleets' style of play, but caught clear preferences from each paragraph that would state what she desires, and that pure sex would not be the desire. And that bluntly, repeatedly accosting her for it wouldn't be appropriate. I caught that in a glance.

So, no. I'm not really inclined to 'defend' Wrestler. It seems pretty clear that he is not a player who is concerned with others' interests, comfort or wishes. Language barriers can be dealt with. A lack of concern or interest in someone other than a profile picture? Not so much. And I've seen the same issues between fully clothed and nudes, so no. I'm not cutting you slack here.
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby dst3313 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:27 pm

This entire thread speaks really to just how difficult it can be for a new person to really join in and participate in the Rp chat rooms here. Just as an outsider who has tried to wade into this pool a bit, it's pretty offputting.

I'm not talking about issues reading profiles. More so of the need to create hugely detailed profiles in the first place just to get started. The learning curve is quite steep, from my outsider perspective.
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby Vidofinir » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:46 pm

dst3313 wrote:This entire thread speaks really to just how difficult it can be for a new person to really join in and participate in the Rp chat rooms here. Just as an outsider who has tried to wade into this pool a bit, it's pretty offputting.

I'm not talking about issues reading profiles. More so of the need to create hugely detailed profiles in the first place just to get started. The learning curve is quite steep, from my outsider perspective.


I can't speak for anyone else here, but I've been on the chat for two years, give or take, and have no real interest in reading lengthy profiles. If I like someone, I'll surely give theirs a read beyond the preliminary skimming I give if someone says Hi to me, but I definitely think it's flawed that people equate profile length with writing ability.

Having little to no profile is one thing, and may speak of a lack of quality, but in my case, I don't really -want- to read anything more than a paragraph or two. Nine times out of ten, character backstory doesn't do much for me, and is honestly going to be skipped. I'm a skilled writer, but I'm still not on chat for long stories and deep character building.

No offense to people who prefer that, or those who write incredibly lengthy profiles, but I think that's really just another preference, and not a sign for or against quality. Some people like long profiles, some don't. Some just want a pretty picture or two, some want to know the details of a character to help build and evolve their story. I'd try not to be too put off by the expectation that you need to have a long profile to have fun in chat, since it's not always true. Best of luck if you ever try to get into using the chat here!


And, briefly on topic, I've had this 'Wrestler' person poke and prod my characters with no profiles, ones with, ones without pictures, ones with provocative ones... While a lot of bad interaction comes from people not reading profiles, I think this guy honestly just doesn't give a shit, and has no shame about being shot down by 20 women (or the same one 20 times) as long as someone gives him fap-fodder eventually. With him, and similar people, I don't think it's a matter of a language barrier, or a lack of profile-reading, just a lack of decency on their part. When a player says 'No' a dozen times and is still harassed relentlessly, that's... not a lack of knowledge of the English language. 'No' is very distinct.
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby coop500 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:50 pm

Wow, this thread really exploded didn't it? Really both of them were in the wrong some..... I don't know who was worse, probably the OP's offender because if they are pestering people on five accounts, that's just harassing, plain and simple. So in that case I kind of change my previous statement, I do not hold it against the OP for this, though I do feel still it could of been handled better, it's not so bad to warn people about this so they know. I also agree that not accepting no for a answer and pestering has nothing to do with lack of knowing English, No is no in any language and is pretty easy to understand.
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby Delet932b4sk » Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:23 am

dst3313 wrote:This entire thread speaks really to just how difficult it can be for a new person to really join in and participate in the Rp chat rooms here. Just as an outsider who has tried to wade into this pool a bit, it's pretty offputting.

I'm not talking about issues reading profiles. More so of the need to create hugely detailed profiles in the first place just to get started. The learning curve is quite steep, from my outsider perspective.


I hate to bluntly say that I disagree with the sentiment, but to put it bluntly, I disagree with the sentiment. I have a pretty good amount of roleplay experience (since like, 2009, not even starting on here) and realistically, I would say more people dislike long profiles than the reverse. I have a different perspective (I never approach other people, I always wait on them to approach me) but I can say the profiles I get the least play on tend to be ones that are either too esoteric, or those that I put significantly more work into, comparatively. Conversely, the character I would call my absolute laziest, who is a female, widely-liked species, one-dimensional "bully with a soft side" fat predator with a generic backstory and a sexy picture gets crowded with play requests plenty often (and a lot of doofus ones). I hesitate to say that a lack of effort is rewarded, but I've definitely noticed a pattern in around 4 and a half years of playing here.

The less ugly way to put it: Being worried about not putting enough effort into your profile can probably be moved to the back of your mind. A couple paragraphs, maybe 4 at most, and you're probably fine as long as you provide a list of preferences and a decent picture. If your play is good, that generally matters a lot more anyway.
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby AlluringPredation » Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:08 am

I had a 2000 word profile, stated they read through it all and were happy they did. It's all how you present the information, a bunch of boring data blocks are none too enticing to read compared to a profile written almost (or even) as a story, created to grab and hold the reader's intention. Some people also give the pertinent information up front, and hide the fluff within spoiler buttons or just later in the profile, making it optional but there to read in case you want a deeper understanding.

As far as Wrestlers approach, it wasn't terribly bad as he was invited to explain why he thought the character was sexy, so to me it's pretty tame though altogether lame (some people like that though.) I've had some approach all out lewd, and that's okay because that was the direction of that character. And other times... I've had people openly stating that the profile got them horny, that they were touching themselves upon first meeting, along with getting harassed by some who knew the english language pretty well demanding a play despite contrary interests.
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby Doku » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:35 am

I will agree only that I have seen much much worse than Wrestler. You are correct in this. It does not excuse the behavior, particularly given the context of the situation as later described with this being far from the first incident, and repeated bald, careless attempts by this person (Not to mention that several others have verified that yes, this is exactly what they do.). And I am not going to fault Four Fleets because she chose an attractive icon, nor am I going to get off this point regarding the fact that the rules of etiquette will always apply, whether you're in a PTA meeting, or a strip club.

It's dangerously close to the general tone of victim blaming, however mild the incident.
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby BL1GHT » Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:57 am

I almost feel like I have no say in this matter because, truth be told, I've been on both sides of that same argument. I've been rejected more then a few times. So I started making more characters. So I was getting more attention. Even RPing with a few players that rejected me. Because I learned their was a certain educate to what I wanted, and I needed to flesh out what I had (I try not to put in to much or to little into my characters). But when I started getting attention from people I didn't want to play with, sometimes, I got a little short with them. There were a few I felt needed to be told "Hey, get the hell away from me" but other times I wish I handled it better. Heck, I snapped at a player I did like because I was being bombarded. I guess what I'm saying is that it all comes full circle. If you want more attention from others, you got to make some changes while at the same time staying true to what you like (it's kind of a balancing act). Someone will like what you you've got and will gravitate towards that. Making the right character is like a mix between advertising and cooking. You got to make them want it. Just sticking it in their (phrasing) face is a good way of getting people to slam the door in yours. That's all I got to say. That's my opinion. I'm out!
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby Rendezvore » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:27 pm

Regardless whether Wrestler gave permission or not, I think it should have stayed anonymous simply out of courtesy. Are we even sure he was aware of what was being asked of him? He may have thought the OP wanted to quote him in a positive light. Was there any indication that this would be used to shame him? I find this to be a tad sneaky and uncalled for. Just give an example and leave it at that. No need to bring names into this. :?

Since I don't feel that I have all the facts about what Wrestler did or the period of time in which he contacted each and every character... Overall, it sounds like he may be going down the list of characters and requesting RP until he gets a hit. Which might be annoying, but that doesn't sound like all out harassment to me because...

I think sometimes it needs to be reminded (myself included) that alts are not always clearly labeled or readers may easily miss or not understand this fact. It was very confusing for me a year ago when I first joined the chat and saw the myriad of characters available to choose from, not realizing that two or three of them may be from the same person. Some people use a recognizable icon, but not everyone does that and not everyone chooses to have a readily available alt list or they keep all their alts private. And if you keep your alts private, it's pretty obvious you're going to get a lot of repeat requests. But even if your alts are not private, you should not expect anyone to read your list of alts or memorize them unless they have any serious reason to invest themselves in you or your characters. They may completely forget who such-and-such alt is a day later. Big whoop, not their character, not their problem. :roll:

Now that I have a few characters under my belt, there have been a few times where I will be on one character, get an RP request, turn it down, then switch to another character a short time later depending on my mood and receive a request from that same person.. not because they are choosing to harass me, but because they most likely didn't notice or realize that character is also mine. So, no matter the reason, I will always answer and/or turn a person down in a polite manner.
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby Cryptrat » Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:15 am

A lot of it is the carpet bomb style of finding a chat partner too. Mind you, if you're profile is set to Do Not Disturb, and they disturb, or you politely decline to RP and they say "Why?" it gets a bit annoying.

Most of my characters are not sexy. I gleefully keep their profiles weird too. I'll throw as much attention at my partner as they give to me, without pictures or profile porn. Ha ha.
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby AlluringPredation » Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:23 am

I guess I really don't see four_fleets as a victim here, considering how they handled it detective style, and I don't see there's enough malicious intent to consider wrestler a force of evil. From his point of view this was a fresh, unmolested character that had yet to deny him (Bad connotations intended, I don't agree with the 99 slaps method). He was challenged to elaborate on the character's sexyness, and the answer was given, and this manner of language was not shown to be discouraged.

Going back to the title. I think people should start taking control of the situation, not just to ward away partners who might miss the mark of the intended play, but to encourage the right kind of player to approach. People scour the internet to find a pic, and create a character based upon that. I believe this is a risk one take when you steal art. The situation pictured may not exactly fit the intended character, but this ISN'T their character, they're essentially hijacking someone else's body for a joyride. Now this might just lead to some miscommunication, especially when profiles are void of any other information to state one's own needs, desires, and personal play style. They're just setting themselves up to hope for the best, and often to be let down. People are going to misinterpret, both will end up wasting time and might end up with hard feelings towards someone respectable.

So a profile is new. Then why do people put up pictures first thing?! This shows the player themselves put too much importance on the picture as well, and starts being a little hypocritical especially if it's not their own personal character art. Even then some characters hang around for a long duration with profiles barren, this means you're riding on the coattails of the art, and approaches are based upon the skill of those who created the piece, and not their own talent.
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby architectap12 » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:26 pm

i dont even understand what the problem is, but im sick right now, so ive got a fever and a headache and im totally deaf rn, and all of that makes it hard to focus, can somebody explain what the issue is as if they were talking to a four year old? im kind of stupid today
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby Doku » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:09 am

AlluringPredation wrote:I guess I really don't see four_fleets as a victim here, considering how they handled it detective style, and I don't see there's enough malicious intent to consider wrestler a force of evil. From his point of view this was a fresh, unmolested character that had yet to deny him (Bad connotations intended, I don't agree with the 99 slaps method). He was challenged to elaborate on the character's sexyness, and the answer was given, and this manner of language was not shown to be discouraged.


That's why I said "Dangerously close to victim blaming." At most, Four Fleets is the victim of mild irritation while setting up a profile, and at most Wrestler is an assumptive ESL clown who treats partners as objects to perform for his pleasure. This is why I won't actually go so far as to say that we're dealing with victimization here. It's symptomatic of broader, more serious problems, but it's a sniffle. Not a full out cough.

Putting up the image first while writing a profile the same day doesn't precisely qualify in my viewpoint as "You take what you can get." I think most of us get annoyed by having the profile process interrupted, and the picture is the easiest thing to upload.

AlluringPredation wrote:Going back to the title. I think people should start taking control of the situation, not just to ward away partners who might miss the mark of the intended play, but to encourage the right kind of player to approach. People scour the internet to find a pic, and create a character based upon that. I believe this is a risk one take when you steal art. The situation pictured may not exactly fit the intended character, but this ISN'T their character, they're essentially hijacking someone else's body for a joyride. Now this might just lead to some miscommunication, especially when profiles are void of any other information to state one's own needs, desires, and personal play style. They're just setting themselves up to hope for the best, and often to be let down. People are going to misinterpret, both will end up wasting time and might end up with hard feelings towards someone respectable.


Some of us do. Some of us aren't hijacking someone else's character. Let's just take an example, shall we?
http://profile.aryion.com/profile/thresher

That isn't hijacked, Alluring. I paid Severflame good money to draw me an image of her, and I've drawn Thresher numerous times in the past, though I don't consider my own art to be good enough for profile images. Firama, Glaciara, Leafio, Abrienda, Samantha Grey, Thresher, all were original character concepts that I cared enough to pay someone to draw me. Others care enough to draw their own characters and some have enough skill to be qualified as 'pretty' by certain standpoints. Others are playing fan-characters and using publicly accessible versions of their art as representations, many of whom are of characters that may be considered 'pretty' by most. In both situations, there's not generally a miscommunication of 'what' the character is, 'who' their personality is, and what their preferences are.

And, let's return to Thresher. I explicitly describe her physique. Sever arguably draws the 'sexiest' image of her I've ever gotten, but generally she's not attractive in the conventional sense, and she's not supposed to be. I still repeatedly have to fend off sex-pot attempts. Her sexuality is in plain view in the first glance of the page (Asexual or Shark-Sexual), and yet numerous characters have approached me seeking romantic entanglements that clearly show they didn't bother to read, not the blurbs, but the quick vitals right there. There was no 'miscommunication.' The other person did not care and wanted the character fitted to their fantasy, regardless of how I had created Tess.

Do I get as much of this negative attention with Tess as I do with Abrienda, the rote sadistic succubus? No. I'm also not logged in as Thresher even a tenth as often as I am Samantha or Abrienda. However, with almost any hand-drawn character I've played this has been a pretty consistent issue. So, I think that while you're trying to represent this as an issue that is more in the court of the profile-owner to fix, I think you are being willfully naive to a bigger issue. Yes, careful manipulation of the profile can help to clarify issues for the reader and avoid confusion. Much like locking a door, it keeps the honest people honest. But this doesn't stop the problem children from simply ram-rodding over a person's interests and wishes. Foisting the problem off on "stealing" art doesn't actually address the problem, as it's just as prevalent when they themselves draw their own characters, and even to an extent without profile pictures if the character is female. (Also, before you ask, yes I just noticed that I changed the name of the F-List profile for Tess so the link to it for preferences does not work. I haven't used Tess here since then, and would update that if I planned to. With two players as exceptions, my experiences as Tess on this site have been resoundingly disappointing.)

People are going to misinterpret, and some of them are going to intentionally misinterpret, seeing only what they want and trying to force someone to be that. That doesn't excuse them from misinterpreting.

AlluringPredation wrote:So a profile is new. Then why do people put up pictures first thing?! This shows the player themselves put too much importance on the picture as well, and starts being a little hypocritical especially if it's not their own personal character art. Even then some characters hang around for a long duration with profiles barren, this means you're riding on the coattails of the art, and approaches are based upon the skill of those who created the piece, and not their own talent.


Actually? For me no. Uploading the image I've already found or paid for takes 5 seconds. Writing a good detailed profile can take a few hours, or a couple days. Posting the image up first merely states that I've done the easiest step first.

Now, yes. Some people do ride on the coattails of a pretty picture and nothing else. That's an entirely different problem, and I will agree that if a person only ever posts an image, no profile (and that, again, is not the case here. Bare bones as it was, there was still enough to go on with this profile.), then expecting good, detailed responses that are not simply based on their profile image would be foolish or at least setting oneself up for disappointment. But that doesn't change the actual issue that exists here.
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby Doku » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:16 am

architectap12 wrote:i dont even understand what the problem is, but im sick right now, so ive got a fever and a headache and im totally deaf rn, and all of that makes it hard to focus, can somebody explain what the issue is as if they were talking to a four year old? im kind of stupid today


Person A had a short profile with a single profile pic, the profile giving ideas on how to approach their character for a scene.
Person B had a short profile with no clear idea of approach other than 'wrestling.'

B approached A, telling them that they were sexy. B has a history of repeatedly approaching A's characters, not reading their profiles and wanting quick sex and to be eaten by them. This is not always what A wants, and her profile hints strongly that she wants something different.

A tells B off mildly but bluntly, implying that she's dealt with him before as she does so. Tells him to buzz off. He doesn't seem to get the hint. She finally gets frustrated with this, his latest attempt, and asks permission to post the contents of the conversation up on the board.

-----------------------------

Short Version: Four Fleets is using Wrestler's behavior as an example of why it is wise to at least glance at the contents of someone's profile (besides their profile pic) before contacting them for RP. The rest of us have been arguing about this, and related side-topics.
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby coop500 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:53 am

Latroma wrote:
architectap12 wrote:i dont even understand what the problem is, but im sick right now, so ive got a fever and a headache and im totally deaf rn, and all of that makes it hard to focus, can somebody explain what the issue is as if they were talking to a four year old? im kind of stupid today


Person A had a short profile with a single profile pic, the profile giving ideas on how to approach their character for a scene.
Person B had a short profile with no clear idea of approach other than 'wrestling.'

B approached A, telling them that they were sexy. B has a history of repeatedly approaching A's characters, not reading their profiles and wanting quick sex and to be eaten by them. This is not always what A wants, and her profile hints strongly that she wants something different.

A tells B off mildly but bluntly, implying that she's dealt with him before as she does so. Tells him to buzz off. He doesn't seem to get the hint. She finally gets frustrated with this, his latest attempt, and asks permission to post the contents of the conversation up on the board.

-----------------------------

Short Version: Four Fleets is using Wrestler's behavior as an example of why it is wise to at least glance at the contents of someone's profile (besides their profile pic) before contacting them for RP. The rest of us have been arguing about this, and related side-topics.


Pretty good way of explaining it! Well done.
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby AMCJavelin » Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:40 am

I have met Wrestler before, I gave him a chance before, I did not like the rp, so I ended it. The worst he did was approach My Wyvern girl in-character, I can't remeber if I said she blew him up with fire or out right ate him, and he hasn't messaged that character since...In fact I just started ignoring the guy and wouldn't you know it he left me alone. There are a couple that are FAR worse than him though, one of them doesn't even have text in their profile, and the other asked me to simply kill off most of one of my alts, just so he could have the Lamia in the group.
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Re: Why you should read profiles instead of oggling eye cand

Postby Filan » Thu May 26, 2016 3:56 am

I honestly go right to the sliders first. Considering the hostile nature of the chat in regards to male characters its best to see if they will blow their top from a ping before even reading their profile.

I would also put this suggestion out to people, Have preferences on your profiles. Especially things regarding character gender prefs, Nothing burns more than no prefs combined with the usual anti-male angle of things.
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