An old Rper's lecture #1 Auto-hits, are they okay to use?

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An old Rper's lecture #1 Auto-hits, are they okay to use?

Postby Camlio420 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:24 am

Well I've been RPing for a while and people are going to start calling me out on the title of this topic alone but, before you just blindly call me insane for it allow me to explain my point and so I'll get into it.

The answer to the question is that it's situational, and yes that is an actual answer. Because great RPers will understand the logic of writing themselves into a corner and therefore they become unable to counter whatever is coming without god modding or power playing, and that's the simple answer and I will provide an example of where an auto hit is appropriate and able to be used properly, scenarios like this are okay for it to be used but, anywhere else? No.

Here's the Scenario, A: is a large creature such as a dragon, massive snake, etc. B: Is a knight or something smaller and closer to human size.

B is exploring a dungeon or something when due to their own endeavors they have found themselves tied up or distracted and ended up being attacked by A who has approached them stealthily from behind, due to being distracted, B cannot defend themselves against the surprise attack. This, and ONLY THIS is the only time an Auto Hit is acceptable to be used. It's tied so deeply into any RPG that even D&D uses it as a way to say, yep you should have paid more attention. It's even used as the excuse for a monster to get a free hit on you in any Final Fantasy game.

As I stated before only sneak attacks such as described above are acceptable autohits, that's it. There is no debating otherwise without going into a lecture of playing or god modding which even with 13 years of RPing under my belt still are hard to define in the grand scheme of things.

But, if you feel I'm wrong, I've overlooked something, or that In Character Logic has no place in RPing and that the tried and true methods of D&D are wrong feel free to open a debate, I'll be glad to listen to your side of it and see if you can point out other logical reasoning that I have missed.
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Re: An old Rper's lecture #1 Auto-hits, are they okay to use

Postby Ojikori » Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:21 am

Hmmm see I would disagree but more on a logical stand point. For example if a creature has been lured into a scenario where it has no way to move or get out of the way of an attack why would it have any way to miss logically? This may seem like a rather odd point but you can lure things into traps and confine their movements which again brings up the idea of a stealth however I do believe that traps should also be a valid point for causing an auto hit. Though I do not believe that auto-hits should be a simple thing to do. They should require finesse or planning so to speak.
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Re: An old Rper's lecture #1 Auto-hits, are they okay to use

Postby Camlio420 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:54 am

Ojikori wrote:Hmmm see I would disagree but more on a logical stand point. For example if a creature has been lured into a scenario where it has no way to move or get out of the way of an attack why would it have any way to miss logically? This may seem like a rather odd point but you can lure things into traps and confine their movements which again brings up the idea of a stealth however I do believe that traps should also be a valid point for causing an auto hit. Though I do not believe that auto-hits should be a simple thing to do. They should require finesse or planning so to speak.


I agree with you there, but, as said before there is times where such a stealth move should be sudden. But, you're right on how it must be planned out, Auto-Hits need to be done by Chessmaster style players who plan moves far in advance.
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Re: An old Rper's lecture #1 Auto-hits, are they okay to use

Postby 4ofSwords » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:20 am

As an old RPer as well, I disagree, and here is why:

You are assuming that all RP is competitive - that not only the characters, but the players are in competition with each other, and therefore would be put out if another character (player) determined their fate. On the contrary, the vast majority of RP I do here is cooperative between the players. We aren't setting up characters as avatars through whom we game against each other; we are working together to tell a story. In that context, I don't consider an auto-hit god-modding at all. There, the only god-modding is describing the other character's reactions, because that is the purview of the other player.

Additionally, no few vore RPs have a D/s aspect to them, and it becomes silly for the predator's player to essentially ask permission in the form of queried hits to capture and eat their prey.
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Re: An old Rper's lecture #1 Auto-hits, are they okay to use

Postby Camlio420 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:56 am

4ofSwords wrote:As an old RPer as well, I disagree, and here is why:

You are assuming that all RP is competitive - that not only the characters, but the players are in competition with each other, and therefore would be put out if another character (player) determined their fate. On the contrary, the vast majority of RP I do here is cooperative between the players. We aren't setting up characters as avatars through whom we game against each other; we are working together to tell a story. In that context, I don't consider an auto-hit god-modding at all. There, the only god-modding is describing the other character's reactions, because that is the purview of the other player.

Additionally, no few vore RPs have a D/s aspect to them, and it becomes silly for the predator's player to essentially ask permission in the form of queried hits to capture and eat their prey.


The reason I brought this up to begin with was for the simple reason that someone actually outright did what you said it was silly to do. Hence why I brought it up to begin with, thus I was trying to make my point that someone shouldn't be trying to be butt hurt when someone says for instance, this giant dragon that you are trying to walk away from and pissed off takes offense to that and swallows you.
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Re: An old Rper's lecture #1 Auto-hits, are they okay to use

Postby 4ofSwords » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:53 pm

Camlio420 wrote:The reason I brought this up to begin with was for the simple reason that someone actually outright did what you said it was silly to do. Hence why I brought it up to begin with, thus I was trying to make my point that someone shouldn't be trying to be butt hurt when someone says for instance, this giant dragon that you are trying to walk away from and pissed off takes offense to that and swallows you.


You kind of lost me there. Which did you say was silly? I think it would be silly for the player of the prey to decide the dragon was pissed off and ate them, or silly for the player of the dragon to, once they ate the prey, react on behalf of the prey as well. I don't think it's silly for the player of the dragon to be able to unilaterally decide they ate they prey, at least not in the context of the kind of RP I enjoy.
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Re: An old Rper's lecture #1 Auto-hits, are they okay to use

Postby Camlio420 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:59 pm

4ofSwords wrote:I don't think it's silly for the player of the dragon to be able to unilaterally decide they ate they prey, at least not in the context of the kind of RP I enjoy.


That's what I meant when I said I agreed with what you said that it was silly they had been butthurt about it.
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Re: An old Rper's lecture #1 Auto-hits, are they okay to use

Postby Artemis » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:17 pm

Camlio420 wrote:Because great RPers will understand the logic of writing themselves into a corner and therefore they become unable to counter whatever is coming without god modding or power playing, and that's the simple answer and I will provide an example of where an auto hit is appropriate and able to be used properly, scenarios like this are okay for it to be used but, anywhere else? No.


Be that as it may, there is a fundamental flaw in auto-hits that this doesn't really address: the fact that you're controlling another player's character.

By not giving the other RPer a chance to react (auto hitting) and assuming what their character will do (take the hit) you are effectively emoting the other RPer's character for them. This is why auto hitting is 100%, non-situationally unacceptable in all high level competitive RP and non-competitive RP in general.

Perhaps, since you've been around so long, you have heard of the competitive RP formats: Most notably T1 for Tier 1, the top tier of competitive roleplaying.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/11548456/T1-Rules-and-Guidelines-for-the-Modern-Day-Role-Player#scribd

These formats exist to provide a set of fair rules to govern fights. You may want to give T1 a look, at least to get an idea of how competitive RPers will expect you to play, if you're interested in that sort of thing.

Camlio420 wrote:But, if you feel I'm wrong, I've overlooked something, or that In Character Logic has no place in RPing and that the tried and true methods of D&D are wrong feel free to open a debate, I'll be glad to listen to your side of it and see if you can point out other logical reasoning that I have missed.


D&D is not (technically) a form of text-based RP, being a fundamental difference from it and the type of RP normally done on this website. To put it in even simpler terms: D&D is RolePlayGaming, not just RolePlaying. What this translates to is that it is not generally realistic to import rules or mechanics from one to the other. One is a gaming platform and the other a writing platform.
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Re: An old Rper's lecture #1 Auto-hits, are they okay to use

Postby 4ofSwords » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:25 pm

Camlio420 wrote:That's what I meant when I said I agreed with what you said that it was silly they had been butthurt about it.

Ah, then yes! I guess it just makes sense to sort out the sort of person you're playing with in advance and what their expectations are.
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Re: An old Rper's lecture #1 Auto-hits, are they okay to use

Postby maleperduis » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:14 pm

Artemis wrote:Be that as it may, there is a fundamental flaw in auto-hits that this doesn't really address: the fact that you're controlling another player's character.

By not giving the other RPer a chance to react (auto hitting) and assuming what their character will do (take the hit) you are effectively emoting the other RPer's character for them. This is why auto hitting is 100%, non-situationally unacceptable in all high level competitive RP and non-competitive RP in general.


I feel like this has to be a judgement call. If I type out a line of dialogue that my character says to the other player's character, is that taking away control of the other player's character? What if that character wants to suddenly interject something in the middle of that dialogue? Is it fair for me to make a post assuming that they're going to keep relatively silent while my character speaks?

If you're actually RPing a fight and want the RP to be competitive to some level, fine, you probably need to be very careful about this kind of thing. But generally, RP should be a collaborative process and you both just need to apply good judgement: is this a moment in which I would reasonably expect the other character might act in some way to interrupt or prevent what I'm writing?
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Re: An old Rper's lecture #1 Auto-hits, are they okay to use

Postby Artemis » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:37 pm

pseudo wrote:I feel like this has to be a judgement call. If I type out a line of dialogue that my character says to the other player's character, is that taking away control of the other player's character? What if that character wants to suddenly interject something in the middle of that dialogue? Is it fair for me to make a post assuming that they're going to keep relatively silent while my character speaks?

If you're actually RPing a fight and want the RP to be competitive to some level, fine, you probably need to be very careful about this kind of thing. But generally, RP should be a collaborative process and you both just need to apply good judgement: is this a moment in which I would reasonably expect the other character might act in some way to interrupt or prevent what I'm writing?


Talking and fighting are two different beasts. In a fight you know there's a pretty good chance the opponent's character wants to react to being attacked. Given how likely it is they want a say in the matter, it becomes downright irresponsible to assume they don't. In a competitive RP environment, a reckless mistake like that is likely to either get you disqualified or be held against you when it comes time to judge your performance to decide a winner.

I see what you're saying though and there is a time and place when assuming things about what your partner's character will do is fine, just not in combat RP. (Auto Hitting, specifically) The etiquette rule for handling situations where you assume things incorrectly is that if a newer post contradicts an older post it voids the contradicting parts of the older post.

So for instance. If you type out a rant ICly and another person's character decides to tackle yours halfway through, the second half of that rant is considered to have not happened. This is both to make sure you retain ultimate control over your own character at all times and to give you a chance to react to being tackled instead of forcing your character to ignore it and go on with his speech as if nothing happened.
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Re: An old Rper's lecture #1 Auto-hits, are they okay to use

Postby NekoYuki » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:27 pm

This is a point of great contention in rps with me. it quickly kills the mood. part of Rping is reacting. and not having the chance to do so spoils it. But also you don't want someone auto-dodging everything.

For me your (OP) scenario is acceptable, but i'm also fine with auto hits on light/minor attacks. a quick light non-fight ending blow. to ensure it moves along.
Sneak attacks are variable. the pred is walking with you when suddenly *wham* suprise punch to the face. sure i can settle for that. but when my character is sprawled on the floor. give her a chance to crawl/get back up.

I understand Auto hitting as well if one character is vastly outclassed. I.E a schoolgirl decides to pick a fight with a fully trained merc/bounty-hunter/Boba Fett wannabee. Though i preffer a little low chance of dodge or counter attack. give her a medal for being brave/stupid! Or they put themselves in a situation where getting hit is unavoidable due to stupidity. I.E "oh yeah i chose to eat my prey out in the open in daytime infront of a police station" you deferve what you're about to get hon... you really do...

The one i don't like and is always a no is random instakill hits from similarly matched, or much weaker charecters. Now, i don't mean putting my character in a situation where the hit is unavoidable, I.E turns out the chick you stalked is packing a 9mm and pulls the trigger point blank, that counts under sneak for me. Unless she's in some super skimpy outfit she couldn't possibly hide it, but atleast let me react to my charecter getting shot. don't decide they die or are knocked out for me. and fore the love of god. Don't randomly pull some got-teir nuke catapult out your ass and onehitting.
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Re: An old Rper's lecture #1 Auto-hits, are they okay to use

Postby Duskthewolfcub » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:58 am

I Don't auto hit in normal rps nor in vore rps amainly because when have the chance to pin my prey down or to run away from a pred i use either attempts to or tries to this puts the ball in the rp partners court in deciding what will happen suprisingly this ends up with my result being in my favor more often than not
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