Content warnings in profiles.

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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby Humbug » Mon May 18, 2015 10:44 am

Leaving things to politeness is as far as this kinda thing should go on this website. If you find something that's just obviously going to gross out a bunch of people, like what the OP talked about, it might be reasonable to suggest moving it further down the profile page or putting a warning somewhere about it, but if they say no, there really shouldn't be a rule against it (unless it's illegal, in which case there's already rules against it). All that means is that they're the type of person you don't want to interact with anyway.

This gets thrown around a lot, but it's at the top of the main page, so it's pretty applicable: "This site was created to let artists, writers, or whoever else has a similar interest to contribute material to this community. Some of the material here is of an adult nature. If you are under 18 years of age or may be offended by the material here you must leave now. ABSOLUTELY NO EXCEPTIONS!"

Politeness is good, but not flipping out over something you find objectionable and demanding that the person remove it or whatever is polite as well (Not accusing the OP of flipping out; they actually seem pretty level-headed). We are all (supposed to be) adults here, so we should be able to handle weird and gross content. I actually don't like the advice of "Don't like it? Don't look" because desensitizing yourself to the nastiest this and other websites have to offer is a good way to become much more tolerant.
And of course, this is always keeping the moral/legal ramifications out of the equation. If there's RL material taken and modified without permission or illegal RL material, report the shit out of that. Those things have no place on this website.
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby Rathe » Mon May 18, 2015 11:19 am

I dunno, I feel this is a problem, but not a huge one or anything. Frankly, they're probably not going to implement anything to fix it, until new chat.

That said, I am pretty sure that you can get banned for your profile being 'impolite'. Granted I'm not sure about that, and the instance I'm thinking of involved an entirely different sort of impoliteness. Nevertheless, perhaps a mod could step in in a case like this and tell the user in question something to the effect of "Hey you're not in trouble or anything, but user/users are a bit upset by your profile. It's up to you, but here's how the image and spoiler html tags work, if you want to rearrange your profile a bit."

It's something that really has to be approached on a case-by-case basis. I've thought for about an hour on how they could write a rule or implement a new feature to fix this, but really they would just serve to hinder the majority of the experience in order to sorta-kinda-sometimes prevent what is already a minority of cases.
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby Artemis » Mon May 18, 2015 12:08 pm

Humbug wrote:We are all (supposed to be) adults here, so we should be able to handle weird and gross content. I actually don't like the advice of "Don't like it? Don't look" because desensitizing yourself to the nastiest this and other websites have to offer is a good way to become much more tolerant.


There's a humongous difference between being able to look at something without being traumatized (Child's reaction) and being able to look at something without being grossed out (Reasonable adult reaction). Being mature only protects you from the former. Insinuating that everyone who finds your fetish gross needs to grow up is kind of messed up when you think about it. What it really comes down to is that the website is for vore and scat is an entirely different, often graphic fetish that a lot of people don't come here for.

So maybe it's not appropriate for people to basically be tricking others into viewing graphic scat porn. How would you feel if someone tricked you into viewing graphic gore porn or uncensored real life executions? The problem with all of these things are that they're graphic and graphic material should probably be handled with a bit more care, adult or not. =/

I should note that this is almost exclusively a chat profile problem. The gallery itself has tags and tag blacklists which solve this problem pretty effectively. ...What if chat profiles had tags that could serve a similar function? I know that other adult sites do this, where you have to tag your profile if it has graphic images on it.
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby Humbug » Mon May 18, 2015 12:31 pm

Artemis wrote:There's a humongous difference between being able to look at something without being traumatized (Child's reaction) and being able to look at something without being grossed out (Reasonable adult reaction). Being mature only protects you from the former. Insinuating that everyone who finds your fetish gross needs to grow up is kind of messed up when you think about it. What it really comes down to is that the website is for vore and scat is an entirely different, often graphic fetish that a lot of people don't come here for.

So maybe it's not appropriate for people to basically be tricking others into viewing graphic scat porn. How would you feel if someone tricked you into viewing graphic gore porn or uncensored real life executions? The problem with all of these things are that they're graphic and graphic material should probably be handled with a bit more care, adult or not. =/

I should note that this is almost exclusively a chat profile problem. The gallery itself has tags and tag blacklists which solve this problem pretty effectively. ...What if chat profiles had tags that could serve a similar function? I know that other adult sites do this, where you have to tag your profile if it has graphic images on it.
That's why I said that politeness is good. Tricking people into viewing gross shit is impolite as hell, yeah, but wasting a mod's time on something that's not against the rules is also its own degree of impoliteness. It appears you're heated up about this topic, but please read the whole of what people say. My point wasn't that the onus is on the viewer to get over it, but that it's a two-way street. That's how communities function.

By the way, you're making a false equivalency here. Scat's gross, but it's not the same thing as real-life executions. Gore porn, sure, similar things (assuming it's fake), but please compare like to like. I don't want to see RL scat either, but it's not the same as witnessing something that's actually terrible.

And no arguments on the tag system for the chat. It'd help a lot.
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby MachineEgg » Mon May 18, 2015 3:27 pm

If you just want a warning before you view the images I wrote a quick 6 line stylesheet that fixes this problem by blurring them until you mouse over. You will need "Stylish" or a similar browser extension to limit it to the profile pages.

Once you have the "Stylish" extension installed simply create a new style and paste this into the css area:

img {
-webkit-filter: blur(30px);
filter: blur(30px);
}
img:hover {
-webkit-filter: blur(0px);
filter: blur(0px);
}

If you want more or less blurring just change the "30px" to whatever level you prefer.
Under "aplies to" set it to "URL prefix" and enter "http://profile.aryion.com/profile".

Thats it! It takes about 5 minutes and you will be able to get a good idea of what the image is before you view it.
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby BlueKnight » Mon May 18, 2015 3:51 pm

Liz wrote:Though where do we start and stop? Real life underage sexual content is banned period. Anime Loli or shota characters are not banned.


I specifically said underage characters in sexual situations, the unmentioned middle ground within your comment that wasn't addressed directly. Maybe not where you and I live but there are other places in the world people can go to prison for such. I think forcing someone to innocently break their countries laws by clicking a ?-mark is a bit rude, and my belief it is reasonable to have them spoiler the pic behind a button and let the individual make their own choice.
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby Artemis » Mon May 18, 2015 4:51 pm

Humbug wrote:That's why I said that politeness is good. Tricking people into viewing gross shit is impolite as hell, yeah, but wasting a mod's time on something that's not against the rules is also its own degree of impoliteness.


It seems a bit backwards to me that voicing your concerns to a moderator would be considered a waste of time. I would think that listening to people's concerns would be a part of the staff's job description.

Humbug wrote:It appears you're heated up about this topic, but please read the whole of what people say. My point wasn't that the onus is on the viewer to get over it, but that it's a two-way street. That's how communities function.


Who exactly is being discourteous here, other than the person surprising people with unsolicited graphic porn again? I don't follow your train of thought.

Humbug wrote:By the way, you're making a false equivalency here. Scat's gross, but it's not the same thing as real-life executions. Gore porn, sure, similar things (assuming it's fake), but please compare like to like. I don't want to see RL scat either, but it's not the same as witnessing something that's actually terrible.


They're all inappropriate to show for the same reason, even if you consider one worse than the other, because they're graphic. Frankly some people would rather see the horrors of war than graphic, abstract porn. The war might be normal to them. It's all a matter of perspective. However, for the purposes of identifying a principle the comparison is valid. (The principle being: Graphic things should not be shown to people without warning.)

BlueKnight wrote:I specifically said underage characters in sexual situations


We actually already have a rule against that. Quote from the Chat and Roleplay FAQ

"Image involving underage drawing and sexual exposure at the same time, will not be allowed to be displayed or link to in profile."
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby Liz » Mon May 18, 2015 5:04 pm

Humbug wrote:Leaving things to politeness is as far as this kinda thing should go on this website. If you find something that's just obviously going to gross out a bunch of people, like what the OP talked about, it might be reasonable to suggest moving it further down the profile page or putting a warning somewhere about it, but if they say no, there really shouldn't be a rule against it (unless it's illegal, in which case there's already rules against it). All that means is that they're the type of person you don't want to interact with anyway.

This gets thrown around a lot, but it's at the top of the main page, so it's pretty applicable: "This site was created to let artists, writers, or whoever else has a similar interest to contribute material to this community. Some of the material here is of an adult nature. If you are under 18 years of age or may be offended by the material here you must leave now. ABSOLUTELY NO EXCEPTIONS!"

Politeness is good, but not flipping out over something you find objectionable and demanding that the person remove it or whatever is polite as well (Not accusing the OP of flipping out; they actually seem pretty level-headed). We are all (supposed to be) adults here, so we should be able to handle weird and gross content. I actually don't like the advice of "Don't like it? Don't look" because desensitizing yourself to the nastiest this and other websites have to offer is a good way to become much more tolerant.
And of course, this is always keeping the moral/legal ramifications out of the equation. If there's RL material taken and modified without permission or illegal RL material, report the shit out of that. Those things have no place on this website.


My god you hit the nail on the head so well.
Well done :)

BlueKnight wrote:
Liz wrote:Though where do we start and stop? Real life underage sexual content is banned period. Anime Loli or shota characters are not banned.


I specifically said underage characters in sexual situations, the unmentioned middle ground within your comment that wasn't addressed directly. Maybe not where you and I live but there are other places in the world people can go to prison for such. I think forcing someone to innocently break their countries laws by clicking a ?-mark is a bit rude, and my belief it is reasonable to have them spoiler the pic behind a button and let the individual make their own choice.


Like I had a debate about it last night that people should not force others to change their profile. However If it breaks the law it breaks the law and the rules.

If you find an image you hate but its not breaking rules then hit the back key and be polite enough not say anything. Let people make their own profiles without randoms trying to police them for they are offended. Its a fetish site.
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby Humbug » Mon May 18, 2015 5:38 pm

Artemis wrote:It seems a bit backwards to me that voicing your concerns to a moderator would be considered a waste of time. I would think that listening to people's concerns would be a part of the staff's job description.
Mods should be brought in for matters of policy or disputes. If you don't like seeing something that isn't against the rules, you should take it up with the person himself. Who knows? They might just not have thought about how what they're doing is rude. If there's no rule against the objectionable content, there isn't a lot a mod can do, so you'd be wasting their time.

Artemis wrote:Who exactly is being discourteous here, other than the person surprising people with unsolicited graphic porn again? I don't follow your train of thought.
It's possible to be discourteous to someone else in reaction to someone's discourtesy.

Artemis wrote:They're all inappropriate to show for the same reason, even if you consider one worse than the other, because they're graphic. Frankly some people would rather see the horrors of war than graphic, abstract porn. The war might be normal to them. It's all a matter of perspective. However, for the purposes of identifying a principle the comparison is valid. (The principle being: Graphic things should not be shown to people without warning.)
Real-life executions are on a completely different level than gross bullshit done for pornographic reasons. They can cause legitimate trauma, and those that are videotaped are often war crimes, which go against the "no illegal content" rules on the website to say the least.
I agree that there -should- be warnings, but if there aren't, we need to draw a line on where the rules of the site step in and where they don't. I think where we disagree is where that line should be drawn, as I'm in the camp where as long as it's not a depiction of something that's actually harmful or illegal, it's not against the rules. I think the website owners and moderators tend to agree with this position. If you don't, that's fine, but the second you start banning or requiring warnings for some non-harmful content, you get into a situation where you have to start splitting hairs about what counts as "too graphic" and what doesn't, which is a pain in the ass and almost always results in the marginalization of groups of people who are into a particular aspect of the fetish. I've seen it happen on FurAffinity with the whole "cub porn" fiasco, and I don't want that to happen here.
The best solution, I think, is to make it easier to do these warnings so people are more inclined to do them.
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby BlueKnight » Mon May 18, 2015 6:38 pm

@Artemis

Been so long since I read that (and don't really care about things that doesn't usually pertain to me), so thank you for pointing that out, so I can point that out to others.

@Liz

I honestly don't care at all what people post in their profile, considering I'm learning to draw I never turn my nose up at anything. My significant other wonders how I can eat while watching Bones, I've got thick skin (unless it's real stuff then NOOOOooooope.)
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby Liz » Mon May 18, 2015 7:26 pm

@Liz

I honestly don't care at all what people post in their profile, considering I'm learning to draw I never turn my nose up at anything. My significant other wonders how I can eat while watching Bones, I've got thick skin (unless it's real stuff then NOOOOooooope.)[/quote]

Same ^.^ I don't like forcing people to use spoilers in profiles unless they want to. If I see something I hate I just say to myaelf I wont be asking for a Rp with thrm and hit back key.
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby Assimilation » Mon May 18, 2015 11:38 pm

Artemis wrote:
Humbug wrote:We are all (supposed to be) adults here, so we should be able to handle weird and gross content. I actually don't like the advice of "Don't like it? Don't look" because desensitizing yourself to the nastiest this and other websites have to offer is a good way to become much more tolerant.


There's a humongous difference between being able to look at something without being traumatized (Child's reaction) and being able to look at something without being grossed out (Reasonable adult reaction). Being mature only protects you from the former.


This isn't protection from anything. You have likes and dislikes. The emotions associated with your likes can range across warmth, respect, awe, and arousal. The emotions associated with your dislikes can range across sadness, anger, exasperation, and disgust. Those emotions can then vary with degrees of intensity. Scat causes intense disgust in you, but for many of us here, it only causes mild disgust, indifference, or even mild or intense arousal.

One might argue that some things are intensely disgusting to most people, and that's what merits putting it behind an opaque yet easy-to-climb wall. Sure, scat falls into that category (I won't pretend otherwise), but so do the ideas of cannibalism and being eaten alive, ideas which we celebrate on this site. Which would then lead to the next part of the argument:

Artemis wrote:What it really comes down to is that the website is for vore and scat is an entirely different, often graphic fetish that a lot of people don't come here for.


You might find this page somewhat surprising. The numbers on the left frame (under "Related Tags") seem inaccurate as they change depending on what tag you're currently searching (or perhaps those numbers are about artwork that intersects both tags), but I'm getting 53 pages of results for "scat"-tagged content. That's close to the same magnitude as "unbirth" (80 pages) and "sex" (64 pages), when compared to things like "belly" (164) and plain ol' "vore" (457). Sex is not vore—it is even less tangential to the consumption of the living, compared to scat—yet we look for it here all the same. And sex is graphic to depict in most societies today. If the argument would go that sex isn't graphic here, numbers would argue that scat isn't graphic here either.

––––––

Artemis wrote:I should note that this is almost exclusively a chat profile problem. The gallery itself has tags and tag blacklists which solve this problem pretty effectively. ...What if chat profiles had tags that could serve a similar function? I know that other adult sites do this, where you have to tag your profile if it has graphic images on it.


I'm not posting to defend scat because I like scat; I'm posting to prevent rules being made on grounds of subjectivity. On the topic of optional tools to help people sift through their intense dislikes to get to their likes without losing the mood, I'm all for it. Tools, not rules.
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby pudgepire » Sun May 24, 2015 2:12 am

Artemis wrote: Some of these things have actual ethical concerns associated with their use, namely scat and real life images. The others do not. Scat is a non-vore fetish (that is frequently enjoyed alongside vore) which is often considered graphic by others. Exposing people to unsolicited graphic porn without warning is pretty rude. Real life images have ethical concerns over whether the user has the right to use that picture. If they don't, that's pretty messed up. There are also some concerns over the boundaries between real life and fantasy. A lot of people recognize the existence of some people out there that would like to experience vore in real life and they aren't wrong to be a little concerned about that.

If all you're being asked to do is make a small compromise to ease these concerns I think you owe it to them to hear them out. That's what people who respect each other do.

I don't think anyone here is discussing banning these things. We know that scat has a place in the community and we know people have the right to enjoy them. However, what we're discussing here is basically graphic advertising which is not at all necessary for either of those things to happen.


I'm not a fan of seeing graphic content either, however on the front page of the site, there is a warning/disclaimer that states in red letters:

"If you are under 18 years of age or may be offended by the material here you must leave now. ABSOLUTELY NO EXCEPTIONS!"

If you are on a wide umbrella fetish website that is centered around vore, which includes digestion and disposal for many users here, and are offended by the content in which the player-base enjoys (however popular or unpopular it may be), then you ought to probably look at profiles with more caution. I can't even count how many times I've clicked to a profile and seen an image that has completely disgusted me because of various reasons (I'm an extremely vanilla player with extremely vanilla interests; stuff like scat, watersports, UB, CV, BV, all really put me off), but I'm not going to complain or call those people out for what they like and what they display on their profiles. I think those things are graphic and disturbing, and I know other people who feel t he same way. Should we, then, all cater to my tastes since I am very vanilla and limit all profiles because of it?

No. People like me can just learn to accept the fact that people like more than just what I like and they can close out and move on. People shouldn't have to be stifled just because I'm extremely picky.
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby Rumor » Tue May 26, 2015 10:07 am

OmaeWaMoShindeiru wrote:If you are on a wide umbrella fetish website that is centered around vore, which includes digestion and disposal for many users here, and are offended by the content in which the player-base enjoys (however popular or unpopular it may be), then you ought to probably look at profiles with more caution.


How do you look at profiles with more caution? All you get before clicking on them is a name and, usually but not always, a gender. And sometimes the gender isn't always correct (eg: male traps and herms listed as females). I mean, not to discredit the rest of what you said, but you get very little idea to what a profile contains before clicking it. There's a search feature for profiles, but it's not reliable for finding common terms. For example, if you search "scat", you'll pull up both everyone who loves it and everyone who has the slider for it set to the lowest value and everyone else in between who has a mention of it. That's zero help for someone like me who is extremely squicked out by scat.



I think someone a bit ago mentioned the gallery tag system, which has a tag blacklist feature. Why not incorporate that into the chat system? Profiles get tags. Users can define a tag blacklist which can obscure the image when they click the profile or maybe warn them when accessing it. It'd depend a bit on people tagging correctly, but there's also the tag approval system the gallery has that could help with lazy/bad/lying taggers. That way, nobody is forced to censor their profile, everyone can put whatever they want on it, and whether a viewer sees the content or not is controlled from the viewers end rather than imposing on the profile maker.


...also, I had no idea underaged characters were banned from the chat. If anything, considering the fact some of those characters have stuck around for years and we also have an underaged slider, everything seems to suggest that rule isn't enforced at all. >.>
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby coop500 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:40 am

Artemis wrote:
Humbug wrote:We are all (supposed to be) adults here, so we should be able to handle weird and gross content. I actually don't like the advice of "Don't like it? Don't look" because desensitizing yourself to the nastiest this and other websites have to offer is a good way to become much more tolerant.


There's a humongous difference between being able to look at something without being traumatized (Child's reaction) and being able to look at something without being grossed out (Reasonable adult reaction). Being mature only protects you from the former. Insinuating that everyone who finds your fetish gross needs to grow up is kind of messed up when you think about it. What it really comes down to is that the website is for vore and scat is an entirely different, often graphic fetish that a lot of people don't come here for.

So maybe it's not appropriate for people to basically be tricking others into viewing graphic scat porn. How would you feel if someone tricked you into viewing graphic gore porn or uncensored real life executions? The problem with all of these things are that they're graphic and graphic material should probably be handled with a bit more care, adult or not. =/

I should note that this is almost exclusively a chat profile problem. The gallery itself has tags and tag blacklists which solve this problem pretty effectively. ...What if chat profiles had tags that could serve a similar function? I know that other adult sites do this, where you have to tag your profile if it has graphic images on it.


I agree with you Artemis! I don't think anything should be banned of course, but tricking others into looking at some graphic stuff is a bit rude and it seems like something could be done that isn't too intrusive on the host and helpful to onlookers, a blacklist seems like a good idea, I mean, it doesn't hurt the host at all and it's already on the main site. Only problem I see is adding tags to pictures of all the existing profiles would be tedious work and some will probably slip through the cracks, but at least it would be helping.
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby Artemis » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:42 am

Oh hey. I forgot all about this thread.

A new idea occurs to me. It'd be pretty neat if the gallery was integrated into the chat somehow. Like, if the gallery images had little bits of code you could copy paste in your profile that would load a module that contained both the image itself and the tagging system, so that the blacklisted overlay would show up in chat just like it does in the gallery. Maybe we could even incorporate favorited tags too somehow. (I have no idea how though.)

It seems like a net buff to chat functionality.

Rumor wrote:...also, I had no idea underaged characters were banned from the chat. If anything, considering the fact some of those characters have stuck around for years and we also have an underaged slider, everything seems to suggest that rule isn't enforced at all. >.>

Well the rule doesn't say that. Underage characters are fine. It's just images of them that include ..."Sexual Exposure", whatever that means. The rule is kind of in ...broken English, but I'm assuming it's meant to forbid simulated child porn, IE drawings depicting naked children or children engaging in sex acts.

Here's the exact wording: "Image involving underage drawing and sexual exposure at the same time, will not be allowed to be displayed or link to in profile."
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby Rumor » Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:17 pm

Either way, I'm sure there's still quite a few underage characters that have been floating around for years with "sexual exposure". I'd tell someone who, but I don't keep track of names and I don't want to go around looking for them, since it sorta causes me to have illegal content on my computer just by viewing the image unless I immediately wipe the offending parts of my internet history and cache clean after.
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby Assimilation » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:54 am

coop500 wrote:I agree with you Artemis!


C'mon, Coop. You just woke up a 10-month-old thread to agree with someone? :roll:
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby coop500 » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:45 am

Assimilation wrote:
coop500 wrote:I agree with you Artemis!


C'mon, Coop. You just woke up a 10-month-old thread to agree with someone? :roll:


And.... How is it your problem? Besides that's not all I posted, you cut it out.

You all are welcome to ignore it, I didn't force you to post anymore.
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Re: Content warnings in profiles.

Postby AlluringPredation » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:39 am

I think it's a problem that will diminish when the next version of the chat is unleashed, whenever that may be. If you've had the misfortune of being around when the main chat goes down you've been able to test some new features.

Namely character status.

I imagine people will start putting brief snippets like; Loli kitsune looking to get chewed up, Micro-mouse who loves getting shoved up stinky nasty asses (dirtier the better), and me mak u cum reel gud. And while the status aims to attract the proper variety of partner, everyone else will know to stay away.
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