I need someone to roast my art so I can get better

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I need someone to roast my art so I can get better

Postby SaintxTail » Sat Sep 23, 2023 2:45 pm

Hi, thanks for checking out this thread!
So I've been really unhappy with my art for almost a year, and my goal is I want to draw like those super professional Pixiv artist. Problem is whenever I ask for criticism, I get hit with the "Oh, it looks fine." and it's really hard to get feedback. I think it's because while I'm not the best artist maybe my skill level is at a point where I'm not doing anything glaringly wrong and everyone enjoys my art how it is? But I can do better. You don't need to be an artist to give me feedback, or even go into details. I just need some direction so then I know where to focus and practice. Maybe the way I draw boobs, or bellies, or belly buttons are weird. Maybe I have the same face syndrome? Poses are stiff? Maybe the bodies don't have enough weight to them? I dunno. Maybe you can recommend me some artists that draw in a way you like that I should check out. I've gotten my art roasted in front of a class before back in college, so you won't hurt my feelings. You can be brutally honest, just don't be mean for the sake of being mean. The goal is to put me on the right path so I can be a better vore artist.

My gallery:
https://aryion.com/g4/user/SaintxTail (check the submission dates to make sure it's recent stuff, I have so much art all over the place)
I'm sharing my gallery and not specific pictures because I do all kinds of vore art and maybe there is a specific type you can give me feedback on than others.
Also I'm looking for just broad feedback in general not a specific picture.

Art Goals
it's not vore but essentially that image quality.

Thanks :)
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Re: I need someone to roast my art so I can get better

Postby JackSpades » Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:02 pm

What I can make out are the following things:
Your drawings lack the three-dimensionality of the style you aspire, which I would contribute to your less proficient shading and lighting. Your shades are rougher than on the art you displayed as reference.
Your angles are a bit flat, too, making your drawings look more two-dimensional.
You draw thicker lines than the artists you showed.
You draw less detailed than the artists you showed.
Your anatomy is not perfect.

That's what I as an absolute layperson could find. I hope it helps.
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Re: I need someone to roast my art so I can get better

Postby GREGOLE » Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:42 pm

I'm not gonna "roast" anything, but I can pinpoint a few things you might want to focus on. Four things jump out at me right away.

1. Your shading is a bit muddy. You seem to be using a lot of smaller strokes to convey shape without putting much emphasis on the broader lighting of the shot. If the wider scene is properly lit, you can actually get away with surprisingly few strokes on the bodies themselves - The references you linked do still rely on a lot of body strokes, but look at how much more attention is paid to the scene itself. The sample images use very wide strokes for the scene's lighting, and then fairly small strokes for the forms of the bodies themselves. As it stands, you're using a lot of medium-sized strokes, which kinda muddies the shading.

Also, as a general rule, the swatches you use for shading should be a step closer to blue, while the swatches you use for highlights should be a step closer to yellow. Depending on the lighting, you can get away with making the shading strokes little or no darker than the base layer, but merely a different hue.

Likewise, your shading is very high-contrast. That is, the swatches you use to shade and highlight are much more intense than the base layer. Look at the image of the two bunny girls: There are some key points where the shading strokes are noticeably intense, but the rest of them are fairly gentle and only barely noticeable.

Idk if this is universal or not, but my personal litmus test when soft-shading is: Could this image still look okay if the only shading I gave it was some cell-shadows in a few key areas? Those key areas are where your high-contrast strokes go. Everything else, you use a gentle hand.
I don't always do a good job with that, but... well, it's a technique all the same.

2. Your anatomy. Right now, you seem to be focusing mainly on the curves of the general form, without much definition of the muscles, the shapes, the actual... well, anatomy of the characters. There are places you're doing a grand job on - the hands especially - but others seem kind of abbreviated. The faces have a very "base sketch" quality to them, as it currently stands.

3. Your lines. Your line thickness isn't totally uniform, but it could be a lot more diverse. Sketchy lines, especially, look best when they're very thin, and the sample images you're giving us use thin lines. As a general rule, the lines of the silhouette should be thicker than the lines of the details.

4. And finally, your posing. This one is hard to get a feel for. I suggest thumbnailing - just doing rough little sketches to diversify and intensify your poses, so you know where everything goes, then trying to figure out how to fill in the anatomy. It's easier said than done, and takes a LOT of experimentation, but it's your best bet when trying to broaden your horizons.
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Re: I need someone to roast my art so I can get better

Postby kislowaty » Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:55 pm

Most of your gallery is comic pages that can be drawn quickly, with flat shading etc. in a very short time, and you're comparing it to pieces that can take a few days to finish. I suggest looking at character drawing timelapses or tutorials on YouTube, to first get a hang of how long such things can take.
As for technique, I suggest https://drawabox.com/, where you can learn "The Big Fundamentals Of Sketching"™ ;)
Drawabox can take a lot of time and effort, so manga drawing courses could be a nice kludge if you fail at that.
Be mindful to take some time to ingrain the skills you learn, whatever path you wish to take.
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Re: I need someone to roast my art so I can get better

Postby Atu327 » Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:26 pm

First want to start off by saying you're better than me, but if you want an outside perspective to get closer to your aspiration, besides what's already been said, I would suggest maybe working at a higher resolution, experimenting with coloring your line art more instead of mostly black, and aiming for more complex perspectives that showcase the three-dimensionality of your subjects. I might suggest focusing more on form than line in the initial sketch as well as the final render. Basically, do the opposite of everything I do as I'm more of the school of geometric shape language, formalist artificiality, and bolder cel shading. But yeah, line weight/color and perspective/pose seem to be the big differences besides anatomy. I won't say one is better than the other in regards to anatomy, but the Pixiv stuff is certainly more realistic in that sense. It may not even be the realism that is appealing so much as the balance between small, medium, and large. Your limbs are a bit on the longer and larger side as are your breasts, butts, etc. And that might be in part to accomodate the vore subject matter, to wrap around large bellies and stuff. But those images have much smaller limbs to accentuate the torso appeal and utilize more foreshortening so that certain aspects don't guide the eye too far away from the focal point. So it may also be partly compositional. Hope any of that helps and best of luck.
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Re: I need someone to roast my art so I can get better

Postby NeoErmotsav » Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:40 pm

Read all the roasts to see if people noticed the same as me,
paraphrasing Art327, "Your limbs are a bit on the longer side" Means you draw forearms noticeably long, and it's in basically every art you done old or recent.
Saw a lot of it on that code geass kallen boob vore 15 page comic I've colored and shaded, even me with very basic anatomy knowledge could see all that
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Re: I need someone to roast my art so I can get better

Postby DEF-EAT » Sun Sep 24, 2023 8:16 am

There are very talanted vore artist out there.
Some of them are karbo,BigBig,1zumy,Ecchipanda and sm more!
The thing with your art is that it has a style and skill level like those "Learn to draw manga" books.It reminded me very often of that.

I think you have to refresh your anatomy skills,do variation in line thiccness(Outlines thiccer than details/lines inside),And try to hit a new level for your coloring.For example 1zumy and ecchipanda have a insane way of coloring and their anatomy was also good as far as I remember!I think you just need more idols you look up to and the will to accept challenging drawings!When you compare your gallery to other artists,someone can notice very fast that from the very beginning you focused on quantity rather than quality.You did an insane amount of sketch packs.Other artists focus on a single very detailed illustration or do a comic with very good art!So I think you also should start to focus on your quality rather than on quantity.Thats might be one of your hardest issues,together with your anatomy.You have to get out of your comfort zone and try many new things and learn new stuff!Why dont you experiment around and try new ways of drawing and artstyles!
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Re: I need someone to roast my art so I can get better

Postby rugli » Sun Sep 24, 2023 10:03 am

OP you could look into taking a drawing class if you are mostly a self-taught artist.
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Re: I need someone to roast my art so I can get better

Postby msmyriam » Sun Sep 24, 2023 10:43 am

This isn't about how to get your style to that point because I'm not a good artist and couldn't tell you, but one thing I notice in your gallery is that a lot of your compositions are pretty similar. The view is mostly from the side, at eye level, showing most or all of the action.

One exception to this is the middle panel on the right side of "bellies and bangers page 30" (https://aryion.com/g4/view/927250), where you see one character slam another on the ground, and it really contributes to the piece. It would probably help to do this more often, and even be a bit bolder with them. People are used to seeing fight scenes in movies that can have all kinds of crazy angles to make the audience feel the impact of a punch or kick as well as seeing that it happened, and from what I know about drawing, these different angles can help with anatomy and perspective.

It might also help to make stronger lighting choices. For example in page 31 of the same series (https://aryion.com/g4/view/928743), you have that great shadow in the middle panel, but the two panels on the bottom might be better with a strong backlight on the pred. That way these two panels are from the POV of the guy sitting against the wall. Her eye contact with the viewer becomes eye contact with him, and it heightens the impact of that moment in the story. Then in the top panel of page 33 (https://aryion.com/g4/view/932121), the light could be coming from over her shoulder and she'd be casting a shadow on him with a similarly threatening effect.

Not to say you always need dramatic lighting, or even lighting consistency, there are definitely reasons not to do either. But in cases like this I could see it strengthening the choices you've already made in the piece. And while I'm not an artist I would also guess that this would help with the style progression you're looking for.

Hope this helps!
Last edited by msmyriam on Sun Sep 24, 2023 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I need someone to roast my art so I can get better

Postby ConceptCorner01 » Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:57 pm

Hey Saint! I've been following your work for so long (longer than I probably should've), and have always enjoyed seeing your work. I just want to give my opinions as a non artist, so I don't have much weight as anything other than "Average vore art enjoyer."

One thing is that I feel like you lack a lot of dynamics in your work. I rarely feel like your pieces are alive, if that makes any sense. I think a part of this is that a lot of your work looks the same, but that's just your art style, probably due to pumping out YCH's.

Another think is that I feel like you don't really show off a lot of the process of vore other than the outcome and the premise. Big bellies, panicked prey, maw shots, burping. It's more so that you've illustrated vore as in "this is what happens" in your sequences as opposed to drawing "This character just ate this other character."

It's hard to explain. The truth is, everyone loves your work. I haven't paid for your packs or anything of yours, so I don't know if business is booming, but given how consistent I see COMMISSION on pieces I can assume that it is doing fine. Personally, I feel like if I had to describe your pieces its "If you seen one Saintxtail piece, you've seen them all."

I hope you don't find this insulting, I've always loved seeing your work, thats just how I feel pretty much.
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Re: I need someone to roast my art so I can get better

Postby KnightleyPaine » Mon Sep 25, 2023 9:26 pm

SaintxTail wrote:Hi, thanks for checking out this thread!
Problem is whenever I ask for criticism, I get hit with the "Oh, it looks fine." and it's really hard to get feedback. I think it's because while I'm not the best artist maybe my skill level is at a point where I'm not doing anything glaringly wrong and everyone enjoys my art how it is?

I know your pain, it's nice that people are trying to be respectful, but they end up just using it suck up. And also people who can't draw for shit can't criticize for shit.

Luckily, I hate everyone and have no scruples in telling you why you suck.

For starters, you're a decently talented person. This should be a good thing, but on you it meant you've coasted by on it and failed to actually improve on many incredibly basic things. I'm fairly sure to have passively seen your stuff across almost a decade and you haven't fixed them. Like, I have deeply, deeply insulted NitroTitan/ModeSeven/Whateverthefucktheirnameisnow but they have actually fixed almost all of their problems over the course of roughly a year right after having done so to the point where I can say I hate their style but within that style their quality is consistent and it would look good to people who are not put off by it like myself.

What I hate the most about you is that you have the same dipshit problem I diddo, which is some combination of okay hand-eye-coordination but you rely too much on it. If you were 12, your linework would be amazing because you're talented. But you're not 12, so now your linework does an absolutely atrocious job at conveying correct perspective and anatomy.

I will now attempt to demonstrate what I mean:

The lines here represent an attempt at hair alignment, eye alignment, nose alignment and jaw alignment. She needs to be very close up for such a fish-eye effect. I also cannot tell how her bones work on that shoulder, and you more or less gave up on that throat ornament after vaguely conveying its shape.

In comparison

Despite the angle, this artist has correctly conveyed the anatomy in regards to viewing perspective. Even as the shoulders are in an odd position, you can still recognize that a human could bend that way with a normal human bone structure.

What is happening is something that happens a whole lot: An artist draws with an anime style. However, unlike a mangaka who took time to learn drawing first, then uses the manga/anime style to simplify in order to churn out pages in due time to hit publishing deadlines, the artist in question uses the anime style as a crutch for the face. Then, through some amount of talent or even hard work, they are able to draw things like body parts and eventually even hands, and piece them together believably, but because they never worked on actual fundamentals, this artist then begins to decorate their wonky foundation with also decent coloring, and becomes the equivalent of a very imaginative architect with no understanding of engineering. So to other people with no understanding of engineering, they make cool buildings, but all their practice goes into that while engineering is not even recognized so that if anything they designed actually existed, it would collapse and kill everyone. You make increasingly immaculate facades for shoddy and irresponsible construction, and there are countless artists out there like you who looked at a style used for simplification of anatomy to look easily appealing on an end product and confused it for the end all blueprint. Some of them have such immaculate hand-eye-coordination, that eventually they know how to perceive perfection and translate it by sheer talent, or if they lack that talent like me, correct infinitely. But I have seen you for a decade and you haven't corrected anything.

You have a lot of other problems, but this is the main one worth mentioning because if it isn't corrected, any improvements you make will just be one more layer of paint over an OSHA violation.

How to fix your problem:
Spend time to practice doing this

The human body has a structure that follows certain rules and limitations as it postures itself. For any style that is close enough to realism, it will matter, and your style is not abstract enough for it not to. You currently make boneless meat puppets that consist of individual parts following your understanding of how they look, vaguely smooshed together and then shilled to a horny audience with no better discernment on the matter. You are at what is the final stage for many amateur artists who are high off the fact that people who can't draw for shit lack the technical discernment to communicate the fundamental weakness of your method. You and all of such self-styled artists (that are not divinely blessed with complete coincidental perfection of method, or savants of abstraction) are destined to rot and decompose on that low hill summit, ever accumulating little flowers to fool the lowest denominators as long as you refuse to come down and begin climbing the actual mountain of learning how to draw.

Now I do not personally care if you die on that hill, But you asked, so I'm telling you about it. Once. Goodbye, good luck, and good effort.
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Re: I need someone to roast my art so I can get better

Postby SaintxTail » Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:35 pm

Omg thank you everyone for the feedback it really means a lot, and I have a much clearer direction of where to go. I know a few people asked and I'm not entirely self-taught. Embarrassingly I do have a BFA in fine arts, and I spent 4 years doing realism, painting, gesture drawings all that. So I do have a formal background in art but I've been taking shortcuts and skipping my training to keep up with my output and fumbling to translate my knowledge of realism to an anime style.

Some of the main things I will try to practice to the best of my ability based on the feedback:

1. Practice and focus on better face and body construction before doing the lineart and making sure things line up properly
2. Brighter colors and subtle shading in some areas
3. Being more mindful of poses so it's not so samey, which means I have to do more perspective (gross)
4. Have more illustrations showing the vore process (Although I will say a majority of my commission requests are usually" Draw Y prey sitting the belly of X pred", but for anything that I'm in complete control over, I can do better)
5. Thinner and more varied lineart

I'll still be keeping an eye on this topic in case anyone else wants to add or specify some more things. Thank you guys again for taking the time to point out stuff to me.
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