Where it all began

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Re: Where it all began

Postby MaskedSinner » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:36 am

Thanks for posting this topic Masked!


Such joy, someone has actually said my name, existence comes one step closer.

I actually discussed my hypotheses on the history of vore in one of my recent "Intro to Vore" documents on DA


This is very interesting, thank you for bringing your research into the subject, but this still leaves us with one last question. When was the term Vorarephilia invented? I tried searching for it but all i could find were reports of people interviewing and explaning vore like we are some kind of aliens. I know it is a paraphilia but i can't pin down the researcher who "discovered" it.

The former. Definitely the former.


I was actually impressed and worried about your commitment for a second there
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Re: Where it all began

Postby CelestialMirror » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:18 pm

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Re: Where it all began

Postby Devourerita » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:00 am

CelestialMirror wrote:I know that the term "Vorarephilia" is made up of latin terms: "Vorare" which means "To Devour", and "Philia" which means "Love of". So it basically means "Love of devouring/being devoured" in latin!

I'm not sure who coined the term or when it appeared, but my guess is that it was a medical association somewhere, and not the community itself? I know the community simplified the term to "Vore" (Vorarephilia can be a mouthful haha), but I'm not quite sure of the exact origin of the original term!


My theory is that the term was coined by the founder of Vor-com, following the medical tradition. It would make sense since it's the first vore site ever made
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Re: Where it all began

Postby MaskedSinner » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:25 am

My theory is that the term was coined by the founder of Vor-com


I agree with Celestial on this one, actually, proably the term was made some long time ago and then the comunnity shortened it to vore
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Re: Where it all began

Postby Devourerita » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:22 am

MaskedSinner wrote:
My theory is that the term was coined by the founder of Vor-com


I agree with Celestial on this one, actually, proably the term was made some long time ago and then the comunnity shortened it to vore


I don't think so: if this was the case there should be a medical case first, and then people that realized they had it would have shortened it to vore and started vor-com and a few RP rooms. We should find medical books about fetishes made before 1997 to prove this theory as true

It makes more sense for me for the founder to vor-com to have found a few people online that shared the fact that they found erotic eating prey/being eaten, decide to follow the medical tradition of naming fetishes by naming this new fetish vorarephilia, and then shorten it to vore/vor (pronunciation is the same and vor is in the URL, so the "e" could have been added later) and start vor-com.

Then again, this is a theory. We'll probably never know the answer unless we find the founder of vor-com and ask him
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Re: Where it all began

Postby Doku » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:03 pm

*sighs* No, this was almost certainly coined by early members of the fetish community. Paraphilia saw a building interest in online formats around the time of the advent of Vor-Com, in the late 90s, and as they formed up they looked for things to call themselves. Most paraphilia took on names in keeping with the traditional -philia suffix format and found an appropriate latin terminology. It never really required academic discourse on the topic.

The only academic studies on the topic (generally maligned locally because they take the attitude that it is a paraphilia associated with sadomasochism, and those present here frequently don't like the official association of any paraphilia as being by nature not necessarily healthy) include the following:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24057211 - 2014, a University of New England publication
"Defining Sex" - Charles River Media's "Sex in Video Games" from 2006
An article out of "Wave Magizine" in 2002.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... l-pleasure - A psychiatrist's blog on the subject with several links to articles that have made brief mention of the topic, none prior to 2000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorarephilia contains links to several of the academic articles, many of them the same ones. Again. Nothing before 2000.

Now, in principle? I despise using wikipedia for any sort of in-depth analyis. It's like using the Encyclopedia Brittanica and thinking you know everything important on a topic (And for those of you who have no clue what that is, I shake my fist at you from my porch and shout "You damned kids with your ipods!"). However, because this question gets asked at least once a year I've had reason to go back and look over and over again for something, anything on the fetish of devouring someone else not explicitly associated with cannibalistic fetishization as a unified study of paraphilia, and I've never successfully found one. Paraphilia existed prior to the 90s, obviously, but only a few were really documented or looked into with any sort of depth. The really well known ones like necrophilia, copraphilia or the like received coverage, scientific study in the decades or even centuries prior depending on how well known they were. Individualized fetishism and paraphilia of the scale that many of us are more familiar with in the current era really doesn't see its advent until the 80s and 90s, again, through the proliferation of pop culture art, quick, mass-produced artistic fetish material and easy dissemination of it through online media.

So, no. I honestly don't think "Vore" as a term has anything to do with the medical community. Were they ok with using it? Sure, because it suits their normal nomenclature just fine and was in common parlance by the time that they even began to look at the topic in the mid 2000s. But they barely even acknowledge the existence as a body of this paraphilia. They didn't bother to coin the term. This was a community coined term, almost definitely.

Now, that said? I don't think it was Vor-Com's creator. I don't know who it was, but given that Omega's Club, the FoodChain and Vor-Com all existed at around the time, and the internet was building steam right around the mid 1990s, there's a reasonable chance that early artists came up with the term. They may have been one of the earliest to coin it along with artists like Strega (who's been around for an eternity and a half by our standards), but I'm not sure it was actually them specifically.

Honestly, though, if you want personal reflections on this topic? You might talk with a couple of the really old salts of this community who were explicitly active 'within' the community when it came into existence. I was a few years late, and always ancilliary to the actual community until closer to 2006, so my awareness of its precise origins is somewhat fuzzy.
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Re: Where it all began

Postby sweetladyamy » Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:14 pm

Now that I think about it, there are mentions, little nods here and there, to mortal thoughts of this specific kind, scribed in Shinryu's Grimoire. However, they are played off as 'minuscule and flighty fantasies', since to Shinryu, mortal life is fascinating, but somewhat repetitive, and even vore is not enough to tickle fascination, even when Shinryu mentions actual eras of mortal races actively partaking in vore acts (and I mean non-RP/real life acts). I've only come across a handful of these mentions, shy to the number of mentions of mortal hearts fancying non 'opposite gender' partners (the way these are written technically describe it in a fashion to how most non-mortals interact).

Of course, I must mention that the archive vault where I found all of Shinryu's scribes, is in a place that doesn't observe time as anything more than a concept, so keep that in mind. It's also the main reason why I studied Aldai, a monographic language (written-only) scribed in Runic.
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Re: Where it all began

Postby Doku » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:38 pm

*rubs forehead* Amy, are you talking about Final Fantasy XIV here, or are we discussing actual documented runic alphabetic works related to the sino-japanese entity Shenlong/Shinry (The Water Dragon), as it pertains to pagan mythos re: multiple mortal races on earth?

Regardless, I feel it worthy of pointing out that the only instance of "Shinryu's Grimoire" I'm finding online pertains to FF XIV, and I think that might be a little outside of the topic of "Where it all began." I'm going to assume that this is something associated with a lesser known neo-pagan treatise for the time being, however. I hardly consider myself an expert on all pagan writings of various stripes, but "Shinryu" is not an authorship I'm accustomed to associating with the runic alphabets (as Sino-japanese names connect to entirely different language roots than the foundations of teutonic and celtic languages.). I will also admit that I'm not necessarily familiar with the full list of ancient, near modern and modern grimoire that have been written (though I'm familiar with several titles like the Seal and Lesser Key of Solomon and the like). But still, I haven't heard of a grimoire among pagan religious texts that goes by this name anywhere.

And this is not to even get into the topic of non-linear views of time. I think that's well outside of the bounds of the discussion here.

EDIT: I've done what I consider to be a somewhat exhaustive search of sacred databases on both Shenlong and Grimoires through history. The only references I've found related to a "Shinryu's Grimoire" are in a blog on rpgmaker from a couple year ago referencing the text, and hinting at associations between the video game entity as associated with the final fantasy mythos and other games and the actual sino-japanese religious figure Shenlong/Shinryu and a text purported to have been written by him. As I cannot find the text or any discussions over its historicity or authenticity other than vague commentary on its existence and association with fictitious work, I will admit that I am legitimately confused.
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Re: Where it all began

Postby MaskedSinner » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:22 am

Thanks, Latroma, for your insight of the subject. It was quite interesting.

Thanks to all of you guy's help i'm actually throughly convinced that we may not be able to pinpoint the precise location or the origin of the term vore in itself but i like to think that we all had some fun researching and Reading about it. We could however determine an era were the term first come to the internet, the 90's, and also how it came to be more popular with the spread of the internet.

It was a very fun ride, if you don't mind i would like to add you guys to my friends list. Perhaps we could talk more on another subject as well or maybe do some RP (Not necessarily vore) as Amy seens inclined to, it could be very fun :)

Edit: If you like to keep contact, just message me and i will know
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Re: Where it all began

Postby sweetladyamy » Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:39 am

Latroma wrote:*rubs forehead* Amy, are you talking about Final Fantasy XIV here, or are we discussing actual documented runic alphabetic works related to the sino-japanese entity Shenlong/Shinry (The Water Dragon), as it pertains to pagan mythos re: multiple mortal races on earth?

Regardless, I feel it worthy of pointing out that the only instance of "Shinryu's Grimoire" I'm finding online pertains to FF XIV, and I think that might be a little outside of the topic of "Where it all began." I'm going to assume that this is something associated with a lesser known neo-pagan treatise for the time being, however. I hardly consider myself an expert on all pagan writings of various stripes, but "Shinryu" is not an authorship I'm accustomed to associating with the runic alphabets (as Sino-japanese names connect to entirely different language roots than the foundations of teutonic and celtic languages.). I will also admit that I'm not necessarily familiar with the full list of ancient, near modern and modern grimoire that have been written (though I'm familiar with several titles like the Seal and Lesser Key of Solomon and the like). But still, I haven't heard of a grimoire among pagan religious texts that goes by this name anywhere.

And this is not to even get into the topic of non-linear views of time. I think that's well outside of the bounds of the discussion here.

EDIT: I've done what I consider to be a somewhat exhaustive search of sacred databases on both Shenlong and Grimoires through history. The only references I've found related to a "Shinryu's Grimoire" are in a blog on rpgmaker from a couple year ago referencing the text, and hinting at associations between the video game entity as associated with the final fantasy mythos and other games and the actual sino-japanese religious figure Shenlong/Shinryu and a text purported to have been written by him. As I cannot find the text or any discussions over its historicity or authenticity other than vague commentary on its existence and association with fictitious work, I will admit that I am legitimately confused.


Yeah, you likely found my blogs there on this subject.
Wrong Shinryu. Of course, translating the Runic was what led me to realize who had written the countless entries in the first place.

I know little about who, or more importantly, what Shinryu is. A shapeshifter is the best I can think of. Also, a Grimoire is a lengthy, often multiple volume written story/biography/journal, which is what this qualifies as. It's not the name of the writings in any form. How many volumes?

At least three thousand.

Anyway, like I said, I had read about some instances where Shinryu, they had observed acts of vore from mortals. It wasn't anything much more to note than that, and I didn't expect any responses either. lol

MaskedSinner wrote:It was a very fun ride, if you don't mind i would like to add you guys to my friends list. Perhaps we could talk more on another subject as well or maybe do some RP (Not necessarily vore) as Amy seems inclined to, it could be very fun :)


Eh, go ahead and drop me a line. Unfortunately, it'll be time for bed for me soon after I post this...
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Re: Where it all began

Postby Doku » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:58 pm

Right, so, this both answers one question and very much does not answer many many others. It does clarify that the only other mention of this Grimoire online is yours, which helps to clear up some of the confusion, but it does not address the root of what I was asking, which is the fairly straightforward:

"What is this text and where can it be found?"

I'll spare us quibbling over what a grimoire is and is not usually in almost all contexts. I actually wanted to know what this document was and where it is found because other than your blog I have never seen its existence in prior studies of these kinds of texts.

It was a very fun ride, if you don't mind i would like to add you guys to my friends list. Perhaps we could talk more on another subject as well or maybe do some RP (Not necessarily vore) as Amy seens inclined to, it could be very fun :)


No thank you, MaskedSinner. While this iteration of this type of conversation I've had in the past has been marginally less unpleasant than most prior occasions with others, the fact remains that I don't really "Do" friendship on this site. I am here for occasional RP and art only. I find any attempts at friendship around here to be intensely uncomfortable, awkward and even distressing and invasive to my personal space. It's been rule of mine for well over a decade that I do not get close to those I RP with with singular exceptions, and that rule has only gotten more rigid with time.

Nothing personal to you. I just almost never do that.
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Re: Where it all began

Postby Borealis » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:42 pm

Yeah, I always assumed that it was kind of consolidated in the 90s prior to the creation of vor-com. That could be 1990, could be 1996, not sure, but I'm sure it predates that launch date of 1997.

Although you asked for the creation of the term and not early images, it is worth saying that images of vore (and I'm not meaning non-fetish fine art or other depictions, but from within at least the furry community in images that are definitely- undisputedly- what we would term as vore pictures) go back quite a bit further than vor-com. Some of Ken Sample's early macrophilic furry pics featuring what is without doubt "vore" as we know it are date-stamped on his pencil work as 1988, 1989 and a load from the early 90s, from memory I think he has some standard macro and macro insertion from the mid 80s too. The fact that the fetish has already consolidated into these sorts of images at this point (albeit from a furry art pioneer so very early examples) leads me to believe that the term was created from within the community, probably in clandestine chats and among relatively tiny groups of people, simply because it seemed to have it's own identity as a thing almost a decade before. There may be some human examples that go back even further, not really sure there.

People like Strega are old-school but I don't think they're quite late 80s old-school, and I don't really know any other artists I've seen that go back this far (Dark Natasha may have dabbled in the early 90s too? And Big Blue Fox?). I think it's quite interesting that there aren't people who are active now claiming ownership of the name or claming ownership being a keystone of the community creation. Because of this, questions such as this one are always going to have a wee bit of mystery about them. Whoever came up with the term, it's likely they've moved on from the community ;)
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Re: Where it all began

Postby sweetladyamy » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:35 pm

Latroma wrote:..."What is this text and where can it be found?"


...
Pardon the 2AM Syndrome. I meant to explain that, and looks like I missed it. Oopsie. lol

North of my hometown, about forty miles over a ridge, there's a ruin, most likely a temple at some point, but there's only one wall standing and little to nothing on the foundation itself. Around this ruin are some standing stones that have various carvings, some are pictures, most of it is Runic, Aldai to be precise. It had been there some time before I found it, as nothing had been touched except by rain, ice and the occasional sandstorm.

I went there a few times before finding an alcove in the rock face to the south. Through some tight corridors, dark and musty, there was the archive of Shinryu's journals. Mostly, I read these as a hobby, but as I said, I recall those few mentions of vore acts amongst mortal races.

As for finding any of Shinryu's writing yourself, good luck. Pretty sure it was all in that one well-hidden area.
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Re: Where it all began

Postby William » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:34 pm

Okay, kiddies, gather around the glowing screen for a history lesson before Grandpa kicks off and this is lost forever.
I'm probably the oldest vore artist still kicking around. (I'm a couple years older than Strega, anyway, and definitely older than Karbo.)
Published underground vore comics in the early 1980's, and made quite a stir in the fetish and underground community.
That was waaaay before the internet, and we came up with the names vore, femcan, Big Gulp, and Black Widow, as well as nymphanthropophagaphilia, the last a mish-mosh gag label to stymie critics of the fetish. (Came up with a LOT of stuff. You try writing 500+ different vore-themed gags!)
Lest you think I'm claiming originator status, I have quite a few books in my extensive collection dating back to the fifties, little fetish humor volumes gloating over so-called cannibal funnies, often termed 'black humor' but sexy as all get out. And more than a few fantasy and science fiction comics and novels of the 40's through the 60's where the main point seems to be 'how many people gonna get et by those attractive beings?'... (Including an actual Bob Hope comic!)
Hope that wasn't too much of an info dump.
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Re: Where it all began

Postby Doku » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:16 pm

I was wondering if one of the folks from well before my entrance would pop in. Thank you. That kind of syncs up with some of what I'd expect, William. A little more prevalent than I think I would expect per se, but I did know that there were art trends well back to the 40s due to pop comic art allowing for a lot more of this kind of material. Not nearly as much before the golden era.

So the term's origin's, at least as a 'fetish' and paraphilia on its own are more of a 1980s era thing?
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Re: Where it all began

Postby Doku » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:23 pm

sweetladyamy wrote:
Latroma wrote:..."What is this text and where can it be found?"


...
Pardon the 2AM Syndrome. I meant to explain that, and looks like I missed it. Oopsie. lol

North of my hometown, about forty miles over a ridge, there's a ruin, most likely a temple at some point, but there's only one wall standing and little to nothing on the foundation itself. Around this ruin are some standing stones that have various carvings, some are pictures, most of it is Runic, Aldai to be precise. It had been there some time before I found it, as nothing had been touched except by rain, ice and the occasional sandstorm.

I went there a few times before finding an alcove in the rock face to the south. Through some tight corridors, dark and musty, there was the archive of Shinryu's journals. Mostly, I read these as a hobby, but as I said, I recall those few mentions of vore acts amongst mortal races.

As for finding any of Shinryu's writing yourself, good luck. Pretty sure it was all in that one well-hidden area.


I think this is where I will leave the matter. It's beyond my capacity to further investigate, though thank you for clearing that up.
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Re: Where it all began

Postby MaskedSinner » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:22 pm

I just almost never do that.


No problem, sorry for making you feel uncomfortable.

Hope that wasn't too much of an info dump


Thank you, this was just perfect. :)
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Re: Where it all began

Postby SamWamm » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:26 am

they've found vore in cave paintings and that's the oldest documentation of any kind that we know about.

guess it's just a thing that's fascinated mankind since the beginning.
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Re: Where it all began

Postby Zeepher150 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:12 pm

SamWamm wrote:they've found vore in cave paintings and that's the oldest documentation of any kind that we know about.

guess it's just a thing that's fascinated mankind since the beginning.

I guess that's because vorarephobes existed before vorarephiles came? :gulp:
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Re: Where it all began

Postby MaskedSinner » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:49 pm

vorarephobes


This is actually the first time i've heard this term
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