Writer appreciation post (And looking for some tips)

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Writer appreciation post (And looking for some tips)

Postby Trollfacegesicht » Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:16 pm

Hi, after only consuming (no pun intended) vore content for a decade, I finally decided to do something on my own in order to fill the gaps for some scenarios, I always imagined but never got realized by an artist or writer. And because I have aphantasia, drawing isn't really an option, so I started to write my first own story. And right now I am just overwhelmed how insanely long it takes to create something decent. I always imagined writing to be something relatively simple, like you are typing a text, you type every day; can't be that hard, right? Oh, how wrong I was.

I'm 6 hours in and not even halfway done. Every time I read it, I notice new errors, inconsistencies where a character does or says something that doesn't make sense for them to say etc. Even after reading it 4 times, I am still not very happy with how it turned out. Describing vore scenes in particular is giving me headaches. And the "protopye" isn't even finished yet :(
But now I can appreciate a good story even more! So thank you for all authors out there, you are doing great work :)

But now to my questions:

- When do you know, you are "finished"? As I stated before, every time I proofread, there is something I notice, something I wanna change, because it feels weird or out of character. How many time do you proof read until you think you are done?

- Speaking of proofreading: How are you even doing it? Normally when I write something I want to publish I ask a friend or collegue to proof read it for me because letting somebody unbiased doing it is always better. But thats not possible for vore stories for obvious reasons. So is there a way to proof read your own texts effectively without missing a lot of errors?
I think I'm struggeling the most with grammar errors. I am not a native speaker, I did some scientific writing in the past due to my semester abroad and spend a lot of time in international communities, but writing english texts still doen't feel "natural" to me and more often than not I am looking for the best way to express myself without sounding like a 12yo with a limited vocabluary. Writing in my native language is out of question.

Best regards and thank you in advance,
TFG (God I want to change this stupid username so badly)
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Re: Writer appreciation post (And looking for some tips)

Postby Tysia » Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:22 pm

Glad to see new folk pickin' up the quill and ink so to speak. I'll do my best to answer 'yer questions below;

'When do you know if you're finished?'

Honestly? This depends on the kind of story. If there's going to be digestion and no disposal, then the most logical place to stop would be post-digestion. If there's digestion and disposal, then post-disposal makes the most sense. If there's neither digestion nor disposal, then ask yourself; do I intend to make a follow-up story? If so, then you can stop just about anywhere that leaves breathing room to continue into another story some other time. If not, then you're still free to end the scenes wherever you like. What oft helps me is before I start writing a scene, I'll whip up a bullet-point list of the beginning, middle and end of the story - something I can reference whilst writing to be like, 'Oh, this isn't going to be able to reach that end I had in mind, maybe I should rewrite this bit a little so it does'. That alone will help smooth out the whole process. I also find writing a list of the intended kinks/niches from the get-go helps tremendously, elsewise I've a tendency to drown amidst the innumerable possibilities that I can throw into the story; by narrowing it down with a short list, I can focus more on making those specific bits better rather than having a thousand poorly done bits instead.

'How do you go about proofreading your work?'

Truth be told, I don't. I write all my stories in Word Documents, so I just use the spell-checker and I consider it done 'n done. I think for only one or two of my stories have I ever gone back through to proofread it from start to finish to check for inconsistencies and the like. The other alternative here is find someone who you trust or know and have them read through it to check for inconsistencies themselves. Generally speaking, though it's possible this only applies to myself, I think most folk find misspellings more 'unreadable' than weirdly worded sentences. Nothing breaks my flow more than misspelt words, whereas I can overlook something that's simply written in an unusual fashion as a quirk 'o the writer's style.

My biggest recommendation to improve your writing is to simply...write more. Not very helpful, I know, but RP'ing and writing yourself short stories on the regular can rather rapidly improve your work if you're really looking to do well. Reading other stories or just regular books may also help improve your general lexicon, throw a few more colorful phrases and the like into the mix.

Hope this helps at least a little!
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Re: Writer appreciation post (And looking for some tips)

Postby SnuggleCondaHuuungry » Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:59 pm

Make sure to give Yourself sometime to walk between, best way to clear Your head of all the junk while seeing Your world actively move forward and realize there's only so much detail needed at first to emerge so much into a world detail given where Your focus matters as a storyteller. If I told "In a dim light room with a lamp on an end table" everyone has their own understanding of what it'd look like. Was the table brown or black, or it high up, or just enough room for the lamp, what shape was the lamp and was the room red? Generally, the mind of the reader with make some effort into making it custom to their selves so unless it matters to really feeling it like describing, Your weathered dried-up hands slowly and easily creasing the soft sand and pouring it like an hourglass into the grooves and cracks of the other."

Writing more is def the best thing You can do, there are a lot of methods I've read a few books on writing, but I mentally struggle with the organization and caring about creating characters and trying to figure out all their connections, I lose myself in the pre game so often

I'm trilled to see other replies and maybe even good examples of vore work here, it gets overwhelming to find good work
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Re: Writer appreciation post (And looking for some tips)

Postby TheDragonBoy » Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:06 am

As I writer, I feel very appreciated by this post. Thanks :)
I started out the same way: consuming content for a while until I felt the urge to fill in gaps and create scenarios that I wanted to see, but no one else had made yet. Now I've been doing this kinda stuff for a few years and posting here often, so hopefully I can give you some helpful advice.

When do you know you are "finished" (proofreading)?

When I first started, I used to go by this rule: I'd go through a story from beginning to end, fixing every mistake as I went, and then I'd go through the entire story again until I had made a single, full pass without finding any new mistakes. It's worth noting that I generally only write stories that are around 2000 to 4000 words long, so it wasn't like I was rereading an entire book over and over, but still, that was an intense standard. I definitely DO NOT do this anymore. This is for two reasons, after writing dozens of stories I got: a) better at writing/editing, and b) lazier. So that is something to look forward to: even though you might spend a lot of time proofreading now, you'll likely get better and better with practice to the point where you can trust yourself to only need one or two reads.

I know a story is "finished" when I've written in all the events I want the story to contain, and I've reviewed it to the point where I'm satisfied it doesn't have any significant errors in it- or I think whatever errors might be in there aren't important enough for me to force myself through the story another time.

How are you proofreading?

I actually have a trick for this that has worked very well for me: "Read Aloud". Microsoft Word (which I use for all my typing) has a feature burred in the "Review" tab titled "Read Aloud". It goes through your document and uses a text-to-speech computer voice to read it to you. Listening to my stories helps me catch errors at lot more easily than reading sometimes. It's easy to miss the difference between "through" and "though" when skimming over a paragraph you've read 10 times, but it's very easy to notice when you hear the words spoken aloud. (I use headphones, of course, to make sure no one accidentally overhears anything spicy.)

I will say, though, that this is not a replacement for normal proofreading. "Read Aloud" doesn't do much to help me catch punctuation and formatting errors. And the normal spell-checker is still my first line of defense against mistakes.

As for showing your work to someone else, it's possible you might find someone here on Eka's to help you- at least eventually. After posting here for a while, I've made a couple writing friends and we occasionally read each other's drafts and catch mistakes or give advice. Maybe you'll make some similar relationships? Or maybe you'll find someone on the forums who just wants to lend a hand proofreading, I don't know.

Either way, Tysia's last line of advice is definitely the best. The most effective way to improve your writing- not only your ability to make a good story, but your ability to proofread, edit, type and recognize a good story- is to just keep writing. One nice thing about this site is that even if your first few stories have a ton of mistakes, you can actually re-upload them if your readers point them out to you after you've posted them.
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Re: Writer appreciation post (And looking for some tips)

Postby jaggedjagd » Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:30 am

- When do you know, you are "finished"?

Golden rule: Don't obsess over it. Once you wrote the final sentence, let it sit for a day. Then later re-read the whole story maybe once or twice, fix only the biggest mistakes you can find, then post it. It will never be perfect. Just send it out into the world,it's ok to realize what you could have done better later on, that's called learning. Utilize the experience you gained for your next story. Also pro tip, don't try to fix an already finished piece too much... never a good idea. Better to move on to something fresh and new or your motivation will fizzle and die.


- Speaking of proofreading: How are you even doing it?

I don't lol. I let my commenters point out my very, very frequent spelling mistakes and then fix them in post. Not a native speaker either so i just use that as an excuse... I'm just really bad at typing tho, the actual spelling isn't the issue. I misstype my own OC's names like, twice a day.
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Re: Writer appreciation post (And looking for some tips)

Postby ElyBlanche » Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:07 pm

I see a lot of others have gone to reply already but I suppose I'll also give my own answers to your questions lol:

- How do I know when a story should end? Truthfully, I don't know until I get there a lot of times. When I write, I usually have a particular few ideas for scenes in mind, with a desired end goal to work towards. When I reach that end goal in the story, I'm finished. It's not that deep in all honesty.

- For proofreading, I sorta just read through myself. I use Google Docs so the spell-checker in that highlights my mistakes. Sometimes if the story is too long for me to be bothered, I ask one of my online friends to give it a skim through. But yeah, small errors here and there isn't something you should worry about too much in my opinion. Everybody makes mistakes. It's impossible to find each and every error without going through it with a fine-toothed comb. Even I still find mistakes in my stories after uploading sometimes lol.

The more you write, the better you'll get! Reading other people's work, and reading in general, is a great way to improve your own writing. I hope this helps!
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Re: Writer appreciation post (And looking for some tips)

Postby ItsSongxing » Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:38 pm

Trollfacegesicht wrote:I always imagined writing to be something relatively simple, like you are typing a text, you type every day; can't be that hard, right? Oh, how wrong I was.


In one regard, you're right: writing has a low barrier for entry compared to art. All you really need is a functioning word processor if you wanna post anything digitally, compared to the myriad of tablets and tools and programs that an artist might use. But yeah, it's definitely a skill in its own right; and like any skill, it's time-consuming and takes practice to get good at it. That is to say, you're not going to make a master work on your first go, so don't sweat it too much!

Trollfacegesicht wrote:I'm 6 hours in and not even halfway done. Every time I read it, I notice new errors, inconsistencies where a character does or says something that doesn't make sense for them to say etc. Even after reading it 4 times, I am still not very happy with how it turned out. Describing vore scenes in particular is giving me headaches. And the "protopye" isn't even finished yet :(
But now I can appreciate a good story even more! So thank you for all authors out there, you are doing great work :)


That's entirely normal! It might help you to focus on just getting a first draft/"prototype" done, maybe wait on it a couple days, and edit it later with fresh eyes. Nobody's gonna see the first draft besides you, so don't worry about it not being up to snuff yet. Don't worry about how long it takes, either - you're not bound to some deadline unless/until you start taking up commissions or a subscription service. The fact that you're noticing things that are wrong and unsatisfying means you've got an eye for criticism, which is a better start than what many first-time story writers have!

Trollfacegesicht wrote:- When do you know, you are "finished"? As I stated before, every time I proofread, there is something I notice, something I wanna change, because it feels weird or out of character. How many time do you proof read until you think you are done?


When I write, I generally have a good idea of what the conclusion of the story will be, so I know a good place to stop. By and large, I write the stories from start to finish, with maybe the occasional edit thrown in if I think of something that would be good to put in. I write my first drafts in Cold Turkey Writer, and when it's done, I edit in LibreOffice until I've got the formatting I want and I've cleaned up spelling mistakes. If I'm not feeling super confident, I'll send the draft to a friend to look over. When they decide it all looks good, I figure it's ready to post! My process means most of my stories are only somewhat edited from the first draft, but I've been posting to this site alone for over 8 years by now, so I have experience knowing what works for me. Your mileage will vary!

Trollfacegesicht wrote:- Speaking of proofreading: How are you even doing it? Normally when I write something I want to publish I ask a friend or collegue to proof read it for me because letting somebody unbiased doing it is always better. But thats not possible for vore stories for obvious reasons. So is there a way to proof read your own texts effectively without missing a lot of errors?
I think I'm struggeling the most with grammar errors. I am not a native speaker, I did some scientific writing in the past due to my semester abroad and spend a lot of time in international communities, but writing english texts still doen't feel "natural" to me and more often than not I am looking for the best way to express myself without sounding like a 12yo with a limited vocabluary. Writing in my native language is out of question.


Avoiding and checking for spelling and grammar errors is just something that comes with practice in the language. Try making some friends in the community here, and they can be beta readers who can point out typos, inconsistencies, and other things; and since they're here, they won't mind the vore stuff! Strunk & White's "Elements of Style" is a go-to handbook which covers a lot of common hang-ups, if a bit dated by 2023 standards, but it's still handy and concise. Most word processors also come with a dictionary and some spelling and/or grammar checks, though it's important to take these with a grain of salt. They can catch many errors and instances of iffy phrasing, but they're usually not tuned for fiction prose, let alone fetish fiction.
As for a couple effective methods on your own, I would take a break after finishing the first draft, and come at it with fresh eyes and a fresh mind. Read it aloud if you can, or have a text-to-speech do it, or even just subvocalize. This makes you slow down and consider whether your writing sounds natural and flows well, and it helps you catch errors you might have missed while initially writing the draft!
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Re: Writer appreciation post (And looking for some tips)

Postby Oniric » Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:15 pm

Just write! You'll only get better with practice, so write, write, write and don't worry about the quality just yet, just focus on getting it done. If you're just starting, unless you're some kind of prodigy, your best works just... won't be very good. And that's okay! Don't get discouraged by that and just keep writing, and you'll eventually get better at it. Obviously there are certain tips and tricks to improve certain aspects, but none of them will matter if you don't practice, so that's definitely the first and most important step.

I suggest writing for you first, with no intention of sharing it. Just write what you like, and have fun with it, otherwise it becomes a chore. if you later want to post your work here or somewhere else, sure, feel free to do it, but don't let that be your main motivation. You're not writing a potential best seller, you're writing very niche fetish content just for your own pleasure, so keep your primary audience in mind (hint: it's you!).

One tip I have for proofreading is that, once you "finish" your story, you set it aside and work on something else for a while. Wait a few days/weeks, and then come back to it, and you might notice mistakes that seemed invisible earlier. This is because our brains become familiar with what we're working on, so we simply don't notice the mistakes. By letting the story rest and coming back to it later, you "reset" your brain and trick it into thinking you're working on something new. Sometimes changing the font can help with that too.

Regarding writing in English, this is another thing that will only get better with practice. Reading in English can also help you improve your vocabulary, so try to do that as much as you can. It's hard at first, but it becomes easier with time. Personally, I started writing in my native language and later translated some of my stories to English when I decided to share them many years later, but currently I write directly in English as I feel comfortable enough with the language to do so.

Good luck and have fun with your writing!
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Re: Writer appreciation post (And looking for some tips)

Postby Trollfacegesicht » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:09 pm

Wow, thank you all for your answers. I can't reply to every single one of them, but what I got out of it is waiting for a couple of days before proof reading is a good way to clear my mind and like everything else just doing it more often makes me better and the whole process faster eventually. Asking somebody from this community or just publishing it right away knowing it isn't perfect is a good idea as well, don't know why I didn't came up with it myself :|
I guess I am overthinking it a bit and have way too high expectations from myself.
Regarding practicing through reading: I think this is another of my problems. I have read a lot of vore stories in the past and I try to compare myself with the work of more experienced writers. I know that this is a bad idea because that leads me to those high expectations, but yeah it's really difficult not to do. I will definitely try to keep it in mind that I am writing the stories for myself in the first place and for others in the second place.

[...]Strunk & White's "Elements of Style" is a go-to handbook which covers a lot of common hang-ups, if a bit dated by 2023 standards, but it's still handy and concise.[...]

Also thank you for this literature suggestion, I will surely check it out in the near future!

Oh and I will also try out the read aloud thing.


All in all you motivated me to just continue what I'm doing, I guess thats what I needed most, so thank you again :)

I got one more stupid-ish question though:

Right now I have two vore scenes, one is somewhere in the middle and the second one is planned for the end of the story. The first one comes after ~3000 words and the second one should start at the 6000 word mark and conclude the story, so does it make sense to split them up to part 1 and part 2 or should I just keep them in one piece? I know it doesnt matter at first when I just write it for myself like Oniric stated, but when it comes to the point I feel ready to publish it than this becomes relevant, so.... whats your opinion on this matter? When do you begin to split your work up?

best regards
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Re: Writer appreciation post (And looking for some tips)

Postby Slayerhero90 » Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:50 am

As far as proofreading goes, when I get to the end of the story, I go back and proofread it myself, usually after taking a gaming or sleep break. I am very confident in my grasp of English and my ability to catch my own errors, so I do not feel the need to involve anyone else. However, one thing I specifically do is I read the story aloud to myself, which really helps sort out awkward phrasings. I really should do a second proofread after my first pass, because I usually find something to add, but I don't. Just one readthrough lets me post it nice and quickly.

As far as splitting stories into parts goes, however, that's a decision I often struggle with and have regrets about it afterwards. You really have to make that call either before you begin writing, or after you finish. I tend to be of the mind that you need at least three distinct parts for splitting a story to be worthwhile, so I personally wouldn't split that work up.
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Re: Writer appreciation post (And looking for some tips)

Postby Oniric » Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:55 am

There isn't really a right or wrong answer to that, as it varies from person to person, but I'm of the opinion that you should only split up a story into parts when you have a very good reason.

Why would you want to split it up? Do you feel there are two distinct parts, where each of them stands on its own? Does each part have a proper beginning, middle and end? Do you think the story flows better if there's a "break" between the first half and the second half? Then sure, split it up, but don't do it just because you can. Don't think only about the number of vore scenes, think about the plot as a whole and what makes narrative sense.
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Re: Writer appreciation post (And looking for some tips)

Postby Trollfacegesicht » Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:31 pm

Alright, I won't split them then. Thanks again! :)
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Re: Writer appreciation post (And looking for some tips)

Postby Nobodyman » Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:25 am

Don't know how helpful I can be since I have kind of a "throw caution to the wind" style of writing, but here goes.


When do you know, you are "finished"?

I know I'm finished when I reach the end of the chapter/story. As I'm writing my story certain things may come to me like "Oh, this part doesn't make much sense, how can I fix that?" or "Maybe it would be better if this happened or if this character did/said that", but generally I'm not going to keep going over and over it to make it the "best" story it can be. Just need to write it and get it out there. As for when a chapter/story ends...well, it just ends at a point that feels right to me. Nothing else I can say really.


'How do you go about proofreading your work?'

I use Microsoft Word spelling and grammar checker and occasionally I may notice a flub upon reviewing a sentence/paragraph, but other than that I generally don't. And yeah, I will admit this is kind of a failing of mine, but strangely I really don't like rereading my work. I enjoy writing it, but once it's done it's done and I like to move on.

But yeah, writing is definitely hard no doubt. Just keep experimenting and see what works for you. The only thing I'll say is don't get too hung up on details. I know it may not seem that way in today's nitpicky online culture, but people are willing to overlook and forgive things as long as the overall story is good.
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Re: Writer appreciation post (And looking for some tips)

Postby NightRoller » Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:24 pm

Above is an excellent compilation of detailed advice, covering most of the things I thought to mention (and far more!)

One thing that hasn't been emphasized enough in my opinion...

READ
more from others with grammar at a level you can understand
.

This doesn't have to be taking detailed notes, but somewhere in your brain, do notice some of the things writers you like tend to do. Consider trying your hand at the same things.


Also, don't judge yourself too harshly. A vore "story" can be quite short: "boy ate girl". Done. Not a very inspiring or well-written story, but a story nonetheless.
Your initial writings will be lower quality than you want them to be. Good, that means you can improve :)
When I first started, it took 2.5 years and about 300 pages of writing to reach a level where I was feeling moderately decent about what I wrote.
To make the process go faster, worry less about editing and making them perfect. Just write and write and write. AND READ.


If writing is your goal, you got this. You can do anything you set your mind to.
We live in a culture of addictions. What's yours?
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