Sustainable Prey Population

[alockwood1]

Hello - first time doing this, so bare with me.

First off, I'm more into the Non-Fatal scenarios where Vore is concerned, and thus I can see things as something of a big wet kiss-hug between Predator/Prey, with it all being in good fun, usually.

Likewise, I like using Reformation, as it allows me to delve into certain dark aspects that would prove Fatal to the Prey, while giving me a mental safety net.

However, I do delve into more Fatal scenarios, and I'll admit, for my own personal sanity, there's things I won't do - butchering with live humans and willing healthy prey are two of my no-nos, as the one is unnecessarily cruel, and the other reminds me of the more sinful form of suicide.

Now, in a short one-shot, or a series that revolves around one Predator and one Prey, this question isn't something I normally wonder, but in longer stories and series, I have to ask this -

Just how do you make sure that there's enough Prey for the Predators, not just in the current setting, but in the Future?

This is of course assuming that Predator and Prey are sapient, and that the Magic/Technology is there, and/or there's non-Sapient options for the Predator to eat.

Personally, coming from a family of hunters, I like using a Quota, in that each Predator is only allowed so many Prey per year, so that the population can sustain itself. I could also see things like Cloning (perhaps with flash memory too), the Prey have a quick maturity/reproductive rate compared to the Predator - with the Prey outnumbering the Predators by a comfortable amount to sustain itself, Predator only eats that Prey on occasion, Reformation (duh), or a combination.

So, to keep the lions, wolves, bears, and tigers, and other predators of your world from starving, how do you make sure that there's enough Prey avalible?

[Lannibal]

...

[alockwood1]

There's two ways that I tend to imagine it:

1) Fatal vore is incredibly uncommon. This is either because the ability requires a rare genetic mutation or, if anyone can do it, then its a once in a lifetime event that most people don't have the opportunity to experience. Willing prey is very rare, and unwilling prey is difficult, almost impossible to capture without tremendous strength or help from an accomplice, and for moral reasons most people don't even consider doing it. It could also be legally regulated, preventing the most prolific predators from having too big of an impact.

2) Fatal vore is a recent development in history, and society is actively collapsing because of it. If anyone can be a predator, and if predators eat people on a regular basis, then the population certainly cannot sustain itself. In this scenario, the characters ought to have a flippant disregard for the future of their world, which would match well with their sociopathic tendency to cannibalize their friends.

The vast majority of stories that I've read fall under one of these two scenarios and, although most don't explicitly mention the background, I can usually infer it myself while reading. I suppose it doesn't matter to most people, as you need a lot of suspension of disbelief to even take vore seriously, and so a disregard for world building comes with the territory.

Possible.

[Septia]

One of the ways I go about it would be making the population of possible prey proportionally larger than that of the preds.
It also depends where in the setting it takes place, as the entire world as a whole does not have the same view and stance on Vore.

[alockwood1]

One of the ways I go about it would be making the population of possible prey proportionally larger than that of the preds.
It also depends where in the setting it takes place, as the entire world as a whole does not have the same view and stance on Vore.

I agree that there needs to be enough Prey both to sustain the Predators, and themselves, much like real life.

[Larax]

I'd say that there are two main approaches, that can branch out into several options.

I. Limit predators. If predators don't have to eat preys on regular basis and it's more like an extra pleasure for them - they can be limited in various ways.
a) Legally - like you've mentioned - permits, quotas, etc. Up to mandatory implants for preys in technologically advanced societies. Obviously, such approach won't work in medieval settings, in which it's hard to control people.
b) Socially - if society doesn't accept predators and considers eating people a crime - it would prevent many predators from eating people.
c) Biologically - limit population of predators - whether it's rare mutation or species that reproduce slowly - their numbers are low enough to make them unable to stop population from growing.

II. Boost number of preys. The more preys there - the more predators can be sustained without population collapsing.
a) Biologically - if preys and predators evolved together - it's likely that preys would breed fast and in large numbers, so more of them may be eaten without population collapsing.
b) Culturally - if preys know about predators, their culture would likely promote reproduction and encourage females to get pregnant.
c) Technologically (also magically) - clone more preys, summon them from other world, terraform planets and seed them with life to return and harvest preys from them.

I suppose that there may be more options for each of those approaches.

[TestAccountPleaseIgnore]

The [Lotka–Volterra equations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equations) were literally built for the purpose of modeling predator/prey population dynamics. Parameter-wise, α/alpha represents prey birthrate, β/beta represents prey death rate via predation, γ/gamma represents predator death rate via natural causes, δ/delta represents predator birthrate (hinges on number of prey alive), and x0 and y0 are the starting numbers of predators and prey. Here's a tool for playing around with it: https://fusion809.github.io/LotkaVolterra/. I've found it's stable at at least the following values:

α = 1, β = 1, γ = 2, δ = 1, x0 = 1, y0 = 1
α = 1, β = 1, γ = 2, δ = 1, x0 = 3, y0 = 1
α = 1, β = 1, γ = 2, δ = 1, x0 = 6, y0 = 2

Do you really need math for this, though? Whether or not anything you write is good doesn't depend on whether it's mathematically consistent.

[alockwood1]

I'd say that there are two main approaches, that can branch out into several options.

I. Limit predators. If predators don't have to eat preys on regular basis and it's more like an extra pleasure for them - they can be limited in various ways.
a) Legally - like you've mentioned - permits, quotas, etc. Up to mandatory implants for preys in technologically advanced societies. Obviously, such approach won't work in medieval settings, in which it's hard to control people.
b) Socially - if society doesn't accept predators and considers eating people a crime - it would prevent many predators from eating people.
c) Biologically - limit population of predators - whether it's rare mutation or species that reproduce slowly - their numbers are low enough to make them unable to stop population from growing.

II. Boost number of preys. The more preys there - the more predators can be sustained without population collapsing.
a) Biologically - if preys and predators evolved together - it's likely that preys would breed fast and in large numbers, so more of them may be eaten without population collapsing.
b) Culturally - if preys know about predators, their culture would likely promote reproduction and encourage females to get pregnant.
c) Technologically (also magically) - clone more preys, summon them from other world, terraform planets and seed them with life to return and harvest preys from them.

I suppose that there may be more options for each of those approaches.

Not bad ideas. As it is, in one interactive I used to add to, I set up a flash cloning thing that would reform the prey after they died, with their memories intact.

[alockwood1]

The [Lotka–Volterra equations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equations) were literally built for the purpose of modeling predator/prey population dynamics. Parameter-wise, α/alpha represents prey birthrate, β/beta represents prey death rate via predation, γ/gamma represents predator death rate via natural causes, δ/delta represents predator birthrate (hinges on number of prey alive), and x0 and y0 are the starting numbers of predators and prey. Here's a tool for playing around with it: https://fusion809.github.io/LotkaVolterra/. I've found it's stable at at least the following values:

α = 1, β = 1, γ = 2, δ = 1, x0 = 1, y0 = 1
α = 1, β = 1, γ = 2, δ = 1, x0 = 3, y0 = 1
α = 1, β = 1, γ = 2, δ = 1, x0 = 6, y0 = 2

Do you really need math for this, though? Whether or not anything you write is good doesn't depend on whether it's mathematically consistent.

I have done a few calculations using 1 predator per 1,000 prey, and then dividing 1,000 by the number of preys eaten per year, going by day, week, then month. Not even 3 years for the first, under twenty years for thesecond, and a little over eighty years for the third.

[ryanshowseason3]

Simple, don't model your prey species on human gestation and maturation.

If you model it after an ACTUAL prey species like rabbits within 6 months from conception you have the equivalent of a horny teenager ready to make bad decisions that put them on the wrong side of the food chain. And when your parents Aren't even a year older there's not a whole lot of worldly wisdom to guide to better decisions.

It's not even that fantastical. That is how a prey species operates. Survive with numbers and horny.

This actually sounds like fun, how society would form around this.

[alockwood1]

Simple, don't model your prey species on human gestation and maturation.

If you model it after an ACTUAL prey species like rabbits within 6 months from conception you have the equivalent of a horny teenager ready to make bad decisions that put them on the wrong side of the food chain. And when your parents Aren't even a year older there's not a whole lot of worldly wisdom to guide to better decisions.

It's not even that fantastical. That is how a prey species operates. Survive with numbers and horny.

This actually sounds like fun, how society would form around this.

Interesting, but most vore-based societies seem to use humans or something similar.

[ryanshowseason3]

Nothing says you can't mix some rabbit genes in for fun and profit. Or we just naturally evolved that way after a predator species showed up and only species that reproduced fast enough survived them. Neanderthals and homo sapiens existed at once. They could have evolved along very different lines in different environments.

[alockwood1]

Nothing says you can't mix some rabbit genes in for fun and profit. Or we just naturally evolved that way after a predator species showed up and only species that reproduced fast enough survived them. Neanderthals and homo sapiens existed at once. They could have evolved along very different lines in different environments.

Might work.

[SJ777]

Whenever I get to imagining what a potentially viable society might look like with vore in play, prey breeding like rabbits is more or less where I go, though I don't shorten it to actual rabbit-like timescales. Just assume that entire litters of kids are standard and that being continuously pregnant from the earliest moment conception is physically possible to the moment some pred crams you down their throat is the norm.

[alockwood1]

Whenever I get to imagining what a potentially viable society might look like with vore in play, prey breeding like rabbits is more or less where I go, though I don't shorten it to actual rabbit-like timescales. Just assume that entire litters of kids are standard and that being continuously pregnant from the earliest moment conception is physically possible to the moment some pred crams you down their throat is the norm.

That could work. That or with every doctor's visit they remove genetic material and it's used to produce more prey.

[Filan]

one thing could be a very small number of those who can actually pred, Think like a fantasy setting and physical scale is based on social status so really the only people who can pred are those up and around royalty since they are the only ones big enough to swallow a normal scale person.

Could even be a way to excuse the consumption itself assuming unwilling, People at that end of society tend to already see the normal people as inferior and beneath them.

with the fantasy royal angle or maybe its a small population species that is big enough to consume(naturally in my imagination that tends to be elves) you can also gain other factors like its rare even for them, Perhaps a taboo to swallow a person. Or with royals, It tends to be the fate of those who end up in the dungeon to wind up on a table at some point.

in other settings you could have an extremely small number of people capable of reducing the scale of someone small enough to eat em, But almost none advertise this and consuming folks is seen as not far off from murder so its something that happens out of sight.

Reformation is also of course an option, Often this can go with just plain getting reformed or even "memory loss reformation" where the prey wakes up at home in their bed thinking being shrunk and devoured by that person was an odd dream.

[Winny]

I have several universes that I write in, generally its different for each one.

In TGODG, the problem of population control and vore is actually part of the lore and story theme, with how society functions around certain segments of the population being eaten. But for this universe, the reason human civilization hasn't fallen is because big business's found how to make vore profit driven and part of the economy. And the number of predator anthros to humans are so lopsided that there is simply to many humans.

In my Webcam universe, Vore is technically illegal. But society has kinda gone total dystopian, anti-consumption media is used to combat people getting eaten but people in power don't really care all to much. Mostly it happens but its kept out of the public eye.

My key's story is based on Daumutefs ishara universe. That universe is based on a form of reincarnation and spores. Essentially when girls fuck and eat each other, they all release spores that carry their genetics and after enough collect together they form eggs. Girls hatch from eggs fully grown. (Children don't exist in this universe as children, everyone is born fully aged up.) But vore is so common that it isn't rare to get eaten right after being birthed from an egg. (Living for a year-five is already considered PRETTY FUCKING OLD.) Souls are sent up to their goddess's that control the rebirth cycle, digested purified and sent straight back down into another egg. Suffice to say a single soul could be human then a monster then a lamia then a fairy then a demon all in the span of a week. (The realm angels live in has reincarnation on another level that keeps you from this cycle and you simply float to an unused empty egg and reborn so almost all vorephiles that love getting eaten see this realm as the utopia it is.)

My two cents. <3

[alockwood1]

one thing could be a very small number of those who can actually pred, Think like a fantasy setting and physical scale is based on social status so really the only people who can pred are those up and around royalty since they are the only ones big enough to swallow a normal scale person.

Could even be a way to excuse the consumption itself assuming unwilling, People at that end of society tend to already see the normal people as inferior and beneath them.

with the fantasy royal angle or maybe its a small population species that is big enough to consume(naturally in my imagination that tends to be elves) you can also gain other factors like its rare even for them, Perhaps a taboo to swallow a person. Or with royals, It tends to be the fate of those who end up in the dungeon to wind up on a table at some point.

in other settings you could have an extremely small number of people capable of reducing the scale of someone small enough to eat em, But almost none advertise this and consuming folks is seen as not far off from murder so its something that happens out of sight.

Reformation is also of course an option, Often this can go with just plain getting reformed or even "memory loss reformation" where the prey wakes up at home in their bed thinking being shrunk and devoured by that person was an odd dream.

To be fair, I am not into the science behind the vore itself, as it were. Just a tip for those reading.

[alockwood1]

I have several universes that I write in, generally its different for each one.

In TGODG, the problem of population control and vore is actually part of the lore and story theme, with how society functions around certain segments of the population being eaten. But for this universe, the reason human civilization hasn't fallen is because big business's found how to make vore profit driven and part of the economy. And the number of predator anthros to humans are so lopsided that there is simply to many humans.

In my Webcam universe, Vore is technically illegal. But society has kinda gone total dystopian, anti-consumption media is used to combat people getting eaten but people in power don't really care all to much. Mostly it happens but its kept out of the public eye.

My key's story is based on Daumutefs ishara universe. That universe is based on a form of reincarnation and spores. Essentially when girls fuck and eat each other, they all release spores that carry their genetics and after enough collect together they form eggs. Girls hatch from eggs fully grown. (Children don't exist in this universe as children, everyone is born fully aged up.) But vore is so common that it isn't rare to get eaten right after being birthed from an egg. (Living for a year-five is already considered PRETTY FUCKING OLD.) Souls are sent up to their goddess's that control the rebirth cycle, digested purified and sent straight back down into another egg. Suffice to say a single soul could be human then a monster then a lamia then a fairy then a demon all in the span of a week. (The realm angels live in has reincarnation on another level that keeps you from this cycle and you simply float to an unused empty egg and reborn so almost all vorephiles that love getting eaten see this realm as the utopia it is.)

My two cents. <3

I like the idea of that sort of reformation.

[alockwood1]

Well, one possibility I've used is that the Sapient Predators are more of generalist in terms of diet, and the Sapient Prey is more one of those "once in a while" things, only eaten on special occasions, possibly using other factors - Criminal Prey, Ill/Fatally Injured Prey, or even Dead Prey.

Another facture might be that a Predator inherits the Prey's Debts - I use that in my one series.