How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

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How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby SputnikDX » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:40 pm

Serious question. Say 3 squads of Space Marines and a Force Commander (10 total) were forced to trek through Felarya, equipped with at least 2 Heavy Bolter weapons, how would they fare?

Now, I don't know how many of you know about Space Marines, but I believe they could stroll through this without a care. Sure, some Marines would die if there was an ambush, but if anything tries a frontal assault it will simply be destroyed. Completely unarmored, those bolter rounds would tear through anything. I'm not even sure if the mystical invulnerable naga guts could handle it.

What do you think?
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby Mech__Warrior » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:23 am

You do realize how big the giantesses are, right? Bolter rounds probably would bounce off, unless they it the eye or something. I don't know how power armor could hold up against the force of being crushed against the index finger and the thumb. Power weapons could probably bruise and cut their flesh effectively, but you're talking about a 50 foot or so tall person here.
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby Jacquelope » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:04 am

Mech__Warrior wrote:You do realize how big the giantesses are, right? Bolter rounds probably would bounce off, unless they it the eye or something. I don't know how power armor could hold up against the force of being crushed against the index finger and the thumb. Power weapons could probably bruise and cut their flesh effectively, but you're talking about a 50 foot or so tall person here.

10 Space Marines? Nah. That's too much of a handicap. Imperial Space Marines in sufficient numbers would make a Felaryan Bloodclaw Ape rampage look like a swarm of mayflies in comparison. One thing about Space Marines, though, is that they're bigger than normal people, and heavily armored. How much bigger and how much more heavily armored, I forgot. Them bolters are no joke, though, that's for sure.

One thing is for absolutely certain: they will not stroll through Felarya without a care.

On another note: 3 squads, 10 marines? I didn't know that 3 squads equals 3 space marines apiece. Hell even 3 Fireteams are more than 10 troops in America's forces (assuming a standard arrangement of 4 men per fireteam). Is the Imperial Army going by the (former, or current?) Chinese 3-man fireteam design for their Squad design? (Fireteams are part of a Squad by modern military definition.) Did he mean 10 men PER squad or 10 men total? 3 Squads, from what I recalled, meant 30 space marines.


By the way, should this not be moved to the Felarya forum? Just wondering.
Experiment: Will a grenade kill a giant naga by exploding in its belly?
Test #1: Inconclusive. Grenade exploded in naga''s mouth.
Test #2: Inconclusive. Grenade exploded in naga's throat.
Further tests delayed until another live specimen can be acquired.
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby Mech__Warrior » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:10 am

Jacquelope wrote:
Mech__Warrior wrote:You do realize how big the giantesses are, right? Bolter rounds probably would bounce off, unless they it the eye or something. I don't know how power armor could hold up against the force of being crushed against the index finger and the thumb. Power weapons could probably bruise and cut their flesh effectively, but you're talking about a 50 foot or so tall person here.


On another note: 3 squads, 10 marines? I didn't know that 3 squads equals 3 space marines apiece. Hell even 3 Fireteams are more than 10 troops in America's forces (assuming a standard arrangement of 4 men per fireteam). Is the Imperial Army going by the (former, or current?) Chinese 3-man fireteam design for their Squad design? (Fireteams are part of a Squad by modern military definition.) Did he mean 10 men PER squad or 10 men total? 3 Squads, from what I recalled, meant 30 space marines.



If I remember correctly, a squad could have 6-9 members, excluding the sergeant. I think.
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby Nerva » Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:12 am

Jacquelope wrote:By the way, should this not be moved to the Felarya forum? Just wondering.

Yeah, Karbo's got his own section for stuff like this.
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby Paradox » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:45 pm

Mhhh, i would like to see the eldar tricking the space marines, letting them split up and (what a surprise) leading them into some nasty Preds XD

But for real now... one space marine alone would be hard to swallow... afterall they're (as already said) bigger than the average human and they're walking tin cans... means every pred would need to get them out of that armor first anyway. :P
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby Terastas » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:37 pm

Depends on where they traveled. Keep in mind that Felarya's denizens, sentient and feral alike, come in many varieties and have many differing ways of dealing with their prey / adversaries.

I had to go on Youtube and look at a few trailers to understand what you meant by space marines (Warhammer 40000 honestly didn't look all that special to me), and I think if the Space Marines were just going to go battling their way across Felarya willy-nilly, they'd be most likely to meet a horrible end if they traveled to Frost Peak and butted heads with the Miratans.

Additionally, how would you expect them (or anyone else, for that matter) to fight off an "attacking" vortex tiger? These and so many other animals in Felarya completely defy any traditional means of warfare.
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby Jacquelope » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:14 pm

I can't wait until this thread is moved so I can explain just how badly things would go for the Miratans if the Imperium of Man were to get a bug up their butts...
Experiment: Will a grenade kill a giant naga by exploding in its belly?
Test #1: Inconclusive. Grenade exploded in naga''s mouth.
Test #2: Inconclusive. Grenade exploded in naga's throat.
Further tests delayed until another live specimen can be acquired.
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby raan » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:46 pm

On behalf of everyone who doesn't know anything about Warhammer 40k, I'd like to say:
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby Nerva » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:21 pm

raan wrote:On behalf of everyone who doesn't know anything about Warhammer 40k, I'd like to say:

Warhammer 40k is basically a crapsack universe where everything is trying to kill you, and humanity is basically at the bottom of the food chain. Humankind's only hope is the Imperium of Man, which is basically a church militant xenophobic society that brutally represses all "unclean" thought and human impurity; they are, as you might expect, violently xenophobic.

Opposing mankind, and each other are the Orks, who are all the worst combination of a redneck, a 7-12 foot tall homicidal giant, a football hooligan, and a plant alien that reproduces via spores. They're also psychically active; their technology is jury-rigged based on improvised knowledged and genetic memory, and if they believe in something hard enough, it becomes real. For instance, red Ork vehicles go faster simply because Orks believe "red wunz go fasta."

Then there are the Tyranid, a spacefaring horde of alien locusts whose primary modus operandi is to land on a planet, consume all life, drain all water, strip-mine the surface of the planet, drain its core of all remaining geothermal energy, then move on to the next world.

Along with them are the Necrons, a legion of zombie robots led by eldritch abominations who basically settle for annihilating all life on the worlds they control; down to bacterium.

Speaking of eldritch abominations, there's the forces of Chaos, who are demons and personifications of human emotions, such as hate, rage, and fear. And don't think the ones personifying good emotions, like Hope, are any better; in fact, the personification of hope is a vicious chessmaster conspiring against the Emperor of mankind, the ruler of the Necrons, and his fellow Chaos abominations. Also, I should note that the only means of interstellar travel in the WH40k involves going through the Warp. The Warp is the home of Chaos demons. It is, quite literally, Hell. Did I mention they also have Demon-fuelled walking battle-castles? Because they do.

Then there's the Eldar. Sometimes described as "space elves" they're nigh-immortal and arrogant in the extreme. They consider themselves above everything else, enshrine their dead heroes' souls in gargantuan powered armor, and seek immortality. They think nothing of killing off all other life in the universe to get it, either. They have evil cousins, who are worse.

Sandwiched between all these omnicidal maniacs is the Tau empire, who are basically "enlightened" communists whose society is built around "the greater good." Unfortunately they practice slavery of other races, sometimes resorting to mind control to do it. At best, they're actively benevolent. At worst, they're villains with good publicity.

Humanity's standard MO of dealing with all these threats consists of three phases.


If you have any further questions, read here. I've only scratched the surface.
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby Mech__Warrior » Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:07 pm

Nerva wrote:
raan wrote:On behalf of everyone who doesn't know anything about Warhammer 40k, I'd like to say:

TV tropes stuff, WarHammer 40K stuff



Yeah, that's pretty accurate. Didn't think it could be that easily explained.
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby SputnikDX » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:18 am

Nerva wrote:
Jacquelope wrote:By the way, should this not be moved to the Felarya forum? Just wondering.

Yeah, Karbo's got his own section for stuff like this.

I know, I was going to post there, but then I had to balance a few factors. Space Marines aren't Karbo related, and while Felarya is Karbo related, the Felarya world has been used outside of Karbo numerous times.

So it was Rest of the World 2, Karbo 1. Move it if you'd like.

As for everyone else, Space Marines are about 7 and a half feet tall. Bolters aren't bullets, but rather large explosive rounds, like mini rocket launchers. I said a Squad was only 3 marines because that's how it is in Dawn of War 2, which is what I'm most familiar with.
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby Jacquelope » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:23 am

Well if the thread's gonna stay here then I will explain why the Miratans wouldn't stand a chance against the Imperium of Man. For one, ten Space Marines from the Imperium would not go far against Frost Peak. But it's the force that comes after them that will crush the Miratans. Their armed forces number in the trillions versus the hundred million or so Miratan forces. Even the regular Imperial Guard conscripts would simply win by swarming the Miratans like ants. The forces that Nerva pointed out would flatten the Miratans... and no one has yet mentioned the Psykers.

But... this handicap called for only 10 Space Marines. In that scenario? Nope. They don't stand a chance. No way. No how. 10 Space Marines are toast in Felarya. Felarya is also lucky in that regard in that the dimensional portal that allowed Imperium forces to enter their territory, is likely to disappear, causing Felarya to disappear from the Warhammer40K universe with no forwarding address.
Experiment: Will a grenade kill a giant naga by exploding in its belly?
Test #1: Inconclusive. Grenade exploded in naga''s mouth.
Test #2: Inconclusive. Grenade exploded in naga's throat.
Further tests delayed until another live specimen can be acquired.
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby PitchBlue89 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:15 am

I would just like to point out a planet that the Marines can't take by Land and Assault Forces goes under what we in the business (or just me) call a fethload of pain in the form of as Nerva said Phase 3 ... Exterminatus a combination of Bio and Virus bombs as well as basically what amounts to a mass nuclear bombardment of the planets surface.
That said, a squad of 10 marines which is your average Space Marines Squad would probably be defeated but it wouldn't be a stroll for either side... a Bolter is no small arms weapon even though it is the standard for a Space Marine. A bolter would do some serious mother fething damage to what ever they hit ... It's basically a hand held rocker launcher add that to squad specialisation like Heavy bolters (think of rapid fire bolters), Flamers which would be damn effective when you consider the fact that it's not just a carbon based fuel ... and of course my favourite weapon of all ... Plasma Cannons... now these babies would do some damage, Basically a bolter on steriods. Superheated liquids that would not only leave a big hole but splashes.
It would be an epic battle and I have no doubt there would be no backing down on either sides behalf BUT I think that a planet of hostiles the size and form of Felarya would eventually overpower and defeat a squad of marines.

as for the scenario of 3 Squads and a Force Commander, well you bring in a different kettle of fish ... a Force Commander will often wield a CQC weapon like a Thunder Hammer or a pair of lightning claws , a Close Quarters/Pistol mix say a chain or power sword + bolt pistol and will often carry special equipment to allow things like Drop Pods, Bombardments and Terminator Teleport Beacons. That said I am assuming that we are neglecting these.. a Force Commander would last as long as his squads but he would be a harder target to take down ...

Please take what I have said with a sigh... this has been the most interesting thing I've typed all week ...
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby Jacquelope » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:30 am

PitchBlue89 wrote:I would just like to point out a planet that the Marines can't take by Land and Assault Forces goes under what we in the business (or just me) call a fethload of pain in the form of as Nerva said Phase 3 ... Exterminatus a combination of Bio and Virus bombs as well as basically what amounts to a mass nuclear bombardment of the planets surface.

Viruses won't do well in Felarya's realm, where everything auto-heals. But if the Imperium has the ability to unleash a nano-virus and they supercharge said nanites to keep consuming, forming centimeter-sized nanoconstructors to replenish their number... yeah, the Felaryan Guardians are going to have a load on their hands. Also remember that Felarya's atmosphere is not accessible from space - if you go high up enough you will leave Felarya into another dimension and cannot get back merely by turning around and going into re-entry. Exterminatus will require opening a dimensional portal to Felarya and shoving a whole lot of somethings through... and then there's the rule that says stable portals in Felarya are almost as oxymoronic as honest politicians. Hmmmmm. Does the Imperium have dimensional portal technology? Well, if not, they could obtain it by attacking Frost Peak and entering the Miratans' dimensional portals and thus invading their worlds.

That said, a squad of 10 marines which is your average Space Marines Squad would probably be defeated but it wouldn't be a stroll for either side... a Bolter is no small arms weapon even though it is the standard for a Space Marine. A bolter would do some serious mother fething damage to what ever they hit ... It's basically a hand held rocker launcher add that to squad specialisation like Heavy bolters (think of rapid fire bolters), Flamers which would be damn effective when you consider the fact that it's not just a carbon based fuel ... and of course my favourite weapon of all ... Plasma Cannons... now these babies would do some damage, Basically a bolter on steriods. Superheated liquids that would not only leave a big hole but splashes.
It would be an epic battle and I have no doubt there would be no backing down on either sides behalf BUT I think that a planet of hostiles the size and form of Felarya would eventually overpower and defeat a squad of marines.

They would meet their end much faster in the Fairy Kingdom with all the ghosts that lurk there, invisible to normal sight, capable of enveloping and digesting any human they encounter. Fairy magic, in particular shrinking magic, is also no joke. Then there's the armor-wearing Crimson Maiden fairies up to the far north (IIRC) - they're either resistant or totally impervious to heat, I forgot which. You can forget about using flamers on them. The Crimson Legions are especially aggressive in battle and would waste no time melting Marines with their heat gaze or stomping on them.

Also, giant nagas can sense approaching threats and flee. Or if they're aggressive, do a tail-whack attack. A 300 foot long naga doing one tail-whack could sweep all 10 marines away. The problem here for the Marines is the naga gets the initiative, and for a 300 foot long monster, initiative counts. If the Marines get their shots off the naga is certainly gonna git dead; namely, if the naga doesn't realize the firepower being leveled against him/her. Also there's the Naxylan Dridders on the other side of Negav city... they could consume a Marine and get their memories. Ouch. Other groups of Dridders, in addition to being really big, may also be armored. Oh and... Galya's heat gaze. Yeah. I bet she has superior range plus initiative on the Marines.

Then there's the mist elves and mist fairies. Double ouch, at least for 1-3 squads of marines.

There are tons of ways the Imperium can overrun Felarya. It just requires more than 1-3 squads of UltraMarines.
Experiment: Will a grenade kill a giant naga by exploding in its belly?
Test #1: Inconclusive. Grenade exploded in naga''s mouth.
Test #2: Inconclusive. Grenade exploded in naga's throat.
Further tests delayed until another live specimen can be acquired.
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby Terastas » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:56 am

Jacquelope wrote:Well if the thread's gonna stay here then I will explain why the Miratans wouldn't stand a chance against the Imperium of Man. For one, ten Space Marines from the Imperium would not go far against Frost Peak. But it's the force that comes after them that will crush the Miratans. Their armed forces number in the trillions versus the hundred million or so Miratan forces. Even the regular Imperial Guard conscripts would simply win by swarming the Miratans like ants. The forces that Nerva pointed out would flatten the Miratans... and no one has yet mentioned the Psykers.

But none of that was ever mentioned. Sputnik only asked about the potential fate of the ten space marines and never said anything in regards to the Imperium having the incentive or the capacity to follow them. And by your own description, the ten space marines would not stand a chance.

No offense, but I'm seeing a lot of ridiculous "fanboy" arguments pervading this thread. I'm sure it's a great game, but come on: If the Space Marines were the absolute final authority unquestioned #1 badass that ever has or ever will be conceived, they probably wouldn't be that entertaining to play as, would they. What some of the people in this thread are describing sounds more like h4x0rs than actual default PCs if you ask me.

Okay, I get it: Warhammer is a crapsack universe where everything is trying to kill you. But you know what? So is Felarya! And the average (I repeat, average) height for a predator in Felarya is between 80 to 100 ft. tall -- Warhammer's war aspects are just as exaggerated and overblown as Felarya's predatory aspects.

So in a situation where a limited number of immigrants from one crapsack world are deposited into the setting of the other crapsack world, my money is always going to be on the home team. They're both equally overblown in terms of power and capacity, but in this case scenario, Felarya has strength in numbers and the home field advantage.
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby Jacquelope » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:28 am

Terastas wrote:
Jacquelope wrote:Well if the thread's gonna stay here then I will explain why the Miratans wouldn't stand a chance against the Imperium of Man. For one, ten Space Marines from the Imperium would not go far against Frost Peak. But it's the force that comes after them that will crush the Miratans. Their armed forces number in the trillions versus the hundred million or so Miratan forces. Even the regular Imperial Guard conscripts would simply win by swarming the Miratans like ants. The forces that Nerva pointed out would flatten the Miratans... and no one has yet mentioned the Psykers.

But none of that was ever mentioned. Sputnik only asked about the potential fate of the ten space marines and never said anything in regards to the Imperium having the incentive or the capacity to follow them. And by your own description, the ten space marines would not stand a chance.

Nope, not when there's only ten of 'em. Like I said it was too much of a handicap.
Experiment: Will a grenade kill a giant naga by exploding in its belly?
Test #1: Inconclusive. Grenade exploded in naga''s mouth.
Test #2: Inconclusive. Grenade exploded in naga's throat.
Further tests delayed until another live specimen can be acquired.
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby Akiada » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:25 pm

I think Bolter's damage output is rather over-rated. They're not particularly large weapons, and neither are the 'bolts' they fire. They're not rocket launchers. They are, at most, like the US XM25:

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The XM25 fires 20mm grenades, smaller than the stuff spat out the business end of the GL attachment on your average grunt's rifle. 20mm is only lethal on impact or near-impact, due to it's small size (as it replies purely on the shockwave to kill. 20mm 'nades can't let loose a huge wave either, and can't contain much shrapnel for further damage). Which is the trade off for having around 20 or so 'nades in a mag.

Still, it's fatal to most things people-sized. But to anything particularly huge? It'll hurt like hell, maybe even be a decent wound, but by the time they could get off enough spots for some serious ones or lethal wounds? Probably dead several times over.
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby Nerva » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:06 pm

Seems a lot of people don't don't read up on the material.

Your basic bolter is a .75 caliber (19mm) submachinegun. Standard bolter rounds don't explode on contact; they penetrate the victim, then detonate. They can also be modified for a variety of other effects, including delivering doses of mutagenic acid (used on Tyranids and other fleshy targets), incendiary rounds (that combine the nastiest properties of white phosphorous and napalm), or flechette. In a lot of ways, the bolter is much more akin to a scaled-down tank main gun, if you could give a main tank gun an SMG's rate of fire.

Depending on magazine type, a bolter could have anywhere from 10 to 100 bolts, and given it's rate of fire, I think your average space marine would be able to get off plenty of shots on a charging predator, provided they weren't ambushed. A heavy bolter is even scarier; being essentially an upsized (1.00 caliber) assault-rifle version of its SMG cousin. Space Marines wield it like you or I would use an AK-47, but to ordinary people, it requires a 2-man team to load and fire.

And these, along with various chainswords are the most basic of Space Marine weapons

A lot of people say that the size of the average predator would be a disadvantage. And yeah, it would be. However space marines are not entirely helpless. Space Marine squads have faced down huge organic opponents before - take for example the Tyranid Carnifex and Bio-Titans, or Ork Squiggoth. They're not exactly untrained or unprepared. Your average Felaryan predator is not going to be able to simply gulp Space Marines down without a fight, if for no other reason than the fact that they're seven and a half feet tall and weigh over a quarter of a ton, and that's without their powered armor.

In a war of attrition, ten space marines are eventually going to lose. Time, numbers and attrition will see to that quite nicely. But I wouldn't be surprised if they take one or two giant predator heads as trophies before they do.
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Re: How would Warhammer 40k Space Marines fare in Felarya?

Postby Akiada » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:19 am

Nerva wrote:Seems a lot of people don't don't read up on the material.

Your basic bolter is a .75 caliber (19mm) submachinegun. Standard bolter rounds don't explode on contact; they penetrate the victim, then detonate. They can also be modified for a variety of other effects, including delivering doses of mutagenic acid (used on Tyranids and other fleshy targets), incendiary rounds (that combine the nastiest properties of white phosphorous and napalm), or flechette. In a lot of ways, the bolter is much more akin to a scaled-down tank main gun, if you could give a main tank gun an SMG's rate of fire.

Depending on magazine type, a bolter could have anywhere from 10 to 100 bolts, and given it's rate of fire, I think your average space marine would be able to get off plenty of shots on a charging predator, provided they weren't ambushed. A heavy bolter is even scarier; being essentially an upsized (1.00 caliber) assault-rifle version of its SMG cousin. Space Marines wield it like you or I would use an AK-47, but to ordinary people, it requires a 2-man team to load and fire.


You say all that like it's something new. :P

Fun fact of the Day: We have those already. Say hello to the AA-12:

Image

Shotgun shells happen to be about 1.00 caliber, too. This is the Frag-12, an explosive variant.

Image

Combine the two. Voila, heavy bolter.

A lot of people say that the size of the average predator would be a disadvantage. And yeah, it would be. However space marines are not entirely helpless. Space Marine squads have faced down huge organic opponents before - take for example the Tyranid Carnifex and Bio-Titans, or Ork Squiggoth. They're not exactly untrained or unprepared. Your average Felaryan predator is not going to be able to simply gulp Space Marines down without a fight, if for no other reason than the fact that they're seven and a half feet tall and weigh over a quarter of a ton, and that's without their powered armor.

In a war of attrition, ten space marines are eventually going to lose. Time, numbers and attrition will see to that quite nicely. But I wouldn't be surprised if they take one or two giant predator heads as trophies before they do.


Yeah, and those guys tend to face forces greater than 10 Space Marines (Biotitans are, after all, Titans and designed for Apocalypse games and whatnot). I would be surprised if they managed to kill one, myself. Inflicting wounds on something many times your size, weight and density isn't going to be easy, even with smart explosives, and anything short of blows to major arteries or organs is going to have the net effect of pissing it off more. And when something is that much larger it means "step on foe, laugh" is an effective tactic due to being so retardedly huge.

Giant monsters and whatnot are really things for vehicles and actual bombs, not a ten man squad. Even said ten men are superhuman.
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